Is there a gap in what beginners are taught?

Guitar61

Most every recommendation says to learn the pentatonic scales first. "Memorise them and you can join in with your buddies". Ok, I've been doing that but I haven't found a single video that tells me how to bridge that gap. Every beginner vid shows the teacher going through the scales then jumps straight to them playing solos. The best analogy I can think of is going online to learn to drive. "Here's the steering wheel, here's the pedals", cut to the guy driving down the road, "once you know them you can drive anywhere with your mates".

I would appreciate any advice or links to fill in that space.

Grunfeld

I'm gonna suggest that when your fingers have learned the well-known patterns of movements that take them to the pentatonic notes it's actually more like -- to continue your driving analogy -- your fingers have learned some of the Highway Code and road signs. 

E.g. No Entry = don't put your finger here.  No Left Turn = don't bend to that note.

Pentatonics are super-safe ways of driving without breaking any rules.  You won't play wrong notes.  (Okay you will but far fewer of them).  Pentatonics keep you safe.  And to be fair you can drive all over the UK following the pentatonic rules.  You'll never get nicked by the jazz police.  But it's like you are only ever going to drive on well-lit A roads.  Nothing wrong with that.

So, you drive by making up tunes.  Solos are tunes.  That's it.  It's your solo so it's your tune so you can make up whatever the hell you want.  The pentatonics will keep you fairly safe but you drive wherever you want.  For ideas and road maps listen to what other people have done just with a pentatonic tune.  There was a thread on here recently for pentatonic solos.  All I can remember from it is "Time" by Pink Floyd but that's a great example if you like that sort of thing.  Obviously a tune solo, and nearly 100% pentatonic.

Danny1969

I spose every teacher is different but I prefer not to let my students use the pentatonic scale or classic box shapes to begin with. I believe it hampers progress in the long run as it doesn't help the learner grasp the difference in maj & minor tonality.
A better way to do it is  

Learn where the notes are all over the guitar.
Learn the intervals between notes that make up the major, minor scales so you can stay in key when playing with others or backing tracks etc

Once you know what notes you can use for any given key you can build solo's quite easily but your understanding of intervals will make your note choice more melodic and relevant to the chords behind rather than blindly banging away in a pentatonic box position like so many do

pintspiller

My teacher didn't tell me what might happen if I do scissor kicks in spandex.

  

Barney

I have them learning minor pentatonics firs as a shape then get them to make up small melodies on just 2 strings at a time ...so B and E the G and B ect ...then build up to 3 strings then 4 ect ...i find it gives good phrasing and gets them out of the habbit of just running pentatonic scales ...i then have them joining 2 positions in the same way ..

It's always good to work to a backing track ...you can easily play a full solo on 2 strings by altering dynamics ..note choice ...timing ..you could look at them as disadvantage exercises to make you think ...also it seems to connect the brain/fingers to the sounds quicker 

stratman3142

I don't accept the premise of your OP. Where did you get that from?

Bellycaster

You haven't discovered Justin Sandercoe (Justinguitar.com) He has very structured free lessons on his website and tons of youtube vids. He has a specific beginners and intermediate course on his site. He is your best bet.

fastonebaz

After learning to solo in minor pentatonic,  learn to solo in a major scale.  Then you've got 2 big tools in yr tool box to user in any key you like.

octatonic

I actually accept the premise from the perspective of that is how it can look to someone at the beginning of their playing career.

The way you take the scales and connect them to music is through transcription- learning pieces of music from recordings and writing them down and then analysing them.
This also helps develop your ear.
They don't have to be written down using standard notation, although that is preferable.
The main thing is to understand how a player used a technique/run/harmonic sequence and why they used it.
Was it intentional, was it outlining the harmonic structure in melody, or was it 'outside' that. Was it an accident, or was it deliberate? (mostly the latter).

Once you understand that from a bunch of players you tend to have an understanding of how you can put it together in a way that makes musical sense.

Try spending the next month learning 2-4 bar phrases from two artists who make music noises that you like.
Learn at least 5 licks per player.
Then learn the chord progression that those licks go over.

At that point come back to this thread with any questions (feel free to ask sooner too, if you want).

It can take a while- years really- but it is related to how you practice, rather than how much you practice.
You could endlessly noodle on the guitar without ever thinking about it and never achieve the goal.
Deliberate, slow and mindful is what sorts this problem.

I'm not saying that you 'can't play' if you can't/didn't do what I've outlined above- but it is certainly the most efficient way to level up your playing and I think it is the most rewarding. 

jellyroll

    +1 for transcription. A good place to start can be YouTube lessons. Find a blues lick lesson you like, listen to the lick but instead of following the instructor, work out the lick for yourself. 

DulcetJones

I don't introduce them until I feel the student is ready, then I start with  the Am 5th fret pattern.  Once they have it memorized I isolate just the 3rd, 4th and 5th string section and have them "jam" with me while I play a slow simple 12 bar progression emphasizing how they should play in time with me.  This method sets the whole process of how to jam/solo in real time in motion for most of my students.  The ones that don't grasp it right away are either not interested in jamming or just need a little more guidance and patience.  Just playing those 6 notes over again a few times on the beat with me is one of the most important aspects. 

Lestratcaster

I won't do scales at the very beginning, I start more with chords so they can hear what they're meant to play the scales over.

I will use the box positions however not across 2 octaves. Instead I will break up the scale and get them to focus on small phrases using 5 notes or so. Then expand by broadening the shape and combining positions etc. As long as they know where the root notes are on the fretboard it works alright.

hollywoodrox

pintspiller said:

My teacher didn't tell me what might happen if I do scissor kicks in spandex.

  

Female adulation and a feeling of being one with the universe 

viz

i may have learned a different way from some others, having been a violinist beforehand, but my route to learning the guitar was initially through purely melodic playing - playing the tunes, vocal lines, melodic solos from my favourite music, which at the time was Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, choral music, etc. I’d play the tunes all over the fretboard, working out the simplest, minimal-movement way of playing them. 

I’m not speaking as a guitar teacher, but I think I’d want to be developing my students’ ear for melody and helping them work out how to play the tunes they love, alongside any harmony work and scales / arps practice. Actively listening to and transcribing melody in my view forms the basis for interesting, tuneful solo-writing. I think this is aligned with octatonic’s, jellyrole’s and others’ approaches.

Scales-practice on its own is great for developing technique and understanding of musical constructs, but not for developing the artistry of musicality. In fact if not supported with other approaches I would think scales-practice can be a hindrance and ultimately a constraint. 

octatonic

viz said:

 In fact if not supported with other approaches I would think scales-practice can be a hindrance and ultimately a constraint. 

Yup, I agree with this.
It is just one tool in the toolbox.
You can't built a house with just a hammer.

pintspiller

When I learned scale positions they called them modes. Nowadays they call them CAGED

viz

pintspiller said:

When I learned scale positions they called them modes. Nowadays they call them CAGED

Yes! The only difference being that CAGED is inversions of the same root chord or scale whereas modes are also thought of as absolute root scales in their own right. 

Blueingreen

The first thing I worked out on guitar (apart from learning a few cowboy chords from a folk book) was that by playing the notes on an Em pentatonicsI could jam along with Spoonful. (Not that I knew it was an Em pentatonic of course).  That was an exciting discovery and I'm certain it was what gave me the enthusiasm to start spending time with the instrument.  

It no doubt helped that I was listening to a lot of blues,  because it felt like a way in to playing the music that was exciting me most.  It might not work so well for someone else.  But it's what kick started it for me.

LastMantra

I strayed outside of the pentatonic once.....didn't like it.
Very lucky not to get the jazz.

close2u

Bellycaster said:

You haven't discovered Justin Sandercoe (Justinguitar.com) He has very structured free lessons on his website and tons of youtube vids. He has a specific beginners and intermediate course on his site. He is your best bet.

This.

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/the-blues-language-bl-401

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/minor-pentatonic-pattern-1-bl-402

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/bending-technique-in-blues-bl-403

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/5-blues-licks-from-pattern-1-bl-404

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/blues-vibrato-bl-405

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/using-blues-licks-effectively-bl-406

THen just follow on from there.