Weird big muff problem

skunkwerx

Its weird because alone it seems to sound fine. But put certain pedals after it, and it sounds shit. Too boomy, quieter and just flabby and not right. 

Its the muff pi with tone wicker that appears to be the issue. 

Chain goes: 

Guitar > tu-3 > bright onion single looper with an oc-3 in its loop > russian big muff > muff pi with tone wicker > pocket metal muff > tone city chorus > tone city delay > strymon blue sky > amp. 

I tried running just a few pedals then putting the muff last in chain, seems to work fine. 

If I connect either the strymon (true bypass mode) or metal muff (buffered) after the tone wicker, the tone wicker sounds bollocks. 

In the scenario above the muff with tone wicker is the only pedal thats turned on, into a clean amp. 

If I place the two true bypass tone citys after the muff, it again seems to sound fine. 

Why doesnt it sound good with certain pedals after it that, even if all other pedals are off/bypassed?! 

All pedals powered by a zuma psu. 

I've used literally 5 different patch and guitar cables to link the muff to the effects after it. 

Its not the guitar cable to the board, nor the guitar cable to the amp, because in isolation the muff with tone wicker sounds fine.. 

What the fuck? 

Is it possible a pedal can have a fault that makes it sound weird but only if the signal passes through other pedals after it, even if theyre bypassed? 

I'm literally stumped. And pissed off. 

The only changes I've made is moving all the pedals from a wooden board to a bigger pedaltrain, and using some longer ebs patch cables. 

I suspected the ebs cables, so I removed them all and used my old fender ones, even the ones before the tone wicker, and its the same bloody result. 

I considered just scrapping the wicker muff and replacing it with the standard nano muff, but I can't actually see how the tone wicker muff is the problem here, even though it is the only thing causing the weirdness, because it sounds fine in isolation or at the end of the chain. So i didnt want to drop another £70 on a pedal thats potentially going to give me the same result! 

Cable length shouldnt be an issue. In total I'm using 28ft. that includes 10 foot of cable to the board, the other 18 foot is made up of patch cables and a 10 foot cable to amp. 

The tu-3 is a buffer, so is the metal muff. But its moot because the muff with TW when on, is a bloody buffer too.. 

Could something be shorting on the metal frame of the pedaltrain? 

I'm out of thoughts tbh. Any help greatly appreciated!!

skunkwerx

After more experimenting today. 

It seems fully dependant on how many pedals are after the tone wicker. 

If there is the strymon and the two tone citys and the metal muff, it sounds quieter and more muddy/flabby. 

If theres none it sounds fine. 

If there is just the tone city pedals after it, it doesnt sound 'as' bad, but I'm fairly certain it still doesnt sound as good as when its last in chain. (By last in chain I mean I remove all the pedals after the tone wicker). 

I tried the same experiment but removing the tone wicker from the chain, and testing the pocket metal muff. 
The metal muff appears to sound the same regardless of if its last in chain, or has 3 pedals after it. 

So, either something in the strymon and metal muff chokes the tone wicker even when the strymons bypassed. Or. The tone wicker is faulty and somehow puts out a good enough signal when it only has to drive the lead to the amp, but not enough strength to go through 3 pedals then to the amp? 

No idea if the latter is possible though.

I think I have at least ruled out the ebs cables though, as none were used today but I still got the same tone wicker results.

Hmm. Whats next though? 

Cirrus

Don't know what the tone wicker does to the output, but it sounds like an impedance thing - that the tone of the final stage of the pedal changes depending on how much load is on it. I hate pedals like that, the OCD for example drove me crazy.

clarkefan

Cirrus said:

Don't know what the tone wicker does to the output, but it sounds like an impedance thing - that the tone of the final stage of the pedal changes depending on how much load is on it. I hate pedals like that, the OCD for example drove me crazy.

I've been reading something similar about MXR phase pedals and impedance, what I read said the input impedance of the phaser ends up in parallel with the input impedance of the next pedal after it, which drops the total impedance and screws the sound up...somehow.
  
I cannot understand impedance for the life of me 

Johnnyseven

Is your power supply underpowered for the number of pedals you are trying to use it with? Does it have isolated outputs?

skunkwerx

Cheers for the input. I also thought impedance, though I also do not understand it!

The Strymon bluesky after it, which is last in chain, can be either true bypass or buffered.. unsure how it can be true true bypass as to activate the buffer mode you just hold the footswitch down when powering up.. so I'm thinking this could be the culprit, and is doing something to the signal when off and in true bypass mode.. 

I'll have to check again, and remove the bluesky, and have just the two TB tone citys and the buffered metal muff after the muff in question.. that'll answer that part.. 

I actually just picked up an op-amp muff to replace the tone wicker muff, I love the sound of it more which was a good move, and the problem seems less an issue.. 

Almost certain its still there but.. its strange because I cannot seem to notice it on other pedals.. that either means its in my head, or it is subtle to the point of mootness.. 

I'll have another play around tomorrow when I've got some more patch cables coming and see if I'm happy with it as is.. 

The tone wicker muff sounded almost unusable though, I was certain I would have noticed this before now, but I did recently add the bluesky and come to think of it, probably havent actually played with the muff since.. 

The power supply is a Zuma, so its got isolated outputs, each at 500ma, which is total overkill, so it shouldnt be an issue..

stonevibe

Put the Strymon in the FX loop on your amp if you have one. I'd avoid putting it straight into the front of an amp where possible.

The fuzz pedals I use (which includes the same Tone Wicker one as you) usually go straight into the front end of my amp, without any time based effects after them.