Can we put this to bed now?

munckee

Brize said:

ToneControl said:

ah, I see. So calling someone an "overprivileged, frankly sinister cunt" does not, after all imply any jealousy

If I've got this right, the OP sees nothing wrong in insulting a public figure in this way, but takes umbrage at someone insinuating that he might have a chip on his shoulder?

Yep can we stop criticizing people who are criticizing people : )

hywelg

How well does anyone spouting venom actually know Jacob Rees Mogg anyway? Or is it just that he is well off, talks in way seen as 'posh'  and a Tory, that makes people dislike him. Has anyone actually met him in order to formulate these views or are they just going on what they've seen of him in the media?

VimFuego

personally I find this whole thread insulting to those of us who chose not to sleep in beds or have a medical condition that requires us to sleep in other containers. As one of the somnolently challenged I demand our rights are protected.

JezWynd

hywelg said:

How well does anyone spouting venom actually know Jacob Rees Mogg anyway? Or is it just that he is well off, talks in way seen as 'posh'  and a Tory, that makes people dislike him. Has anyone actually met him in order to formulate these views or are they just going on what they've seen of him in the media?

In person he might be very likeable but his public persona is that of a late Victorian patriarch. For the purposes of a light hearted, (well it was until certain parties decided to show us how clever they were) thread, we went with the latter interpretation. 

LuttiS

munckee said:

Brize said:

ToneControl said:

ah, I see. So calling someone an "overprivileged, frankly sinister cunt" does not, after all imply any jealousy

If I've got this right, the OP sees nothing wrong in insulting a public figure in this way, but takes umbrage at someone insinuating that he might have a chip on his shoulder?

Yep can we stop criticizing people who are criticizing people : )

I think we need to take a critical look at this statement. 

Philly_Q

Brize said:

p90fool said:

Philly_Q said:

Maybe we should put this thread to bed now?  I don't think it's put anything to bed.

I agree, I wish I'd never started it.

Now you know how David Cameron feels.

Cameron doesn't give a shit, he just quit and went off on a three-year holiday.  The overprivileged cunt.

Oops.  Sorry.

JezWynd

LuttiS said:

munckee said:

Brize said:

ToneControl said:

ah, I see. So calling someone an "overprivileged, frankly sinister cunt" does not, after all imply any jealousy

If I've got this right, the OP sees nothing wrong in insulting a public figure in this way, but takes umbrage at someone insinuating that he might have a chip on his shoulder?

Yep can we stop criticizing people who are criticizing people : )

I think we need to take a critical look at this statement. 

RaymondLin

On one hand I TOTALLY understand that one can love their life, enough money to get by, good friends, lovely family, no major worries and that is all you NEED, that is all anyone needs.

You are also allowed to voice your opinion on whoever person, that is your right to your opinion.

Except at the same time, other people then can also voice the same opinion about YOU, if someone think you are jealous or chip on your shoulder...they are entitled to that too.

It's a 2-way street.  You opened the door.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander and all that and don't be a hypocrite and no double standard...etc etc etc. 

Sassafras

ToneControl said:

Sassafras said:

ToneControl said:

ah, I see. So calling someone an "overprivileged, frankly sinister cunt" does not, after all imply any jealousy

This sentence says more about your jealousy.

Explain your reasoning please, I have expressed no opinion about Mogg in this sentence, so how do you reach this conclusion?

Don't be childish. We all know how much you love, admire and respect Mogg, therefore you want to be like him. I'd call that jealousy.
You can't have it both ways. If we don't like him we must obviously be jealous of him but if we do admire him we don't want to be like him, is that what you're saying?
You raised the possibility of jealousy which when applied to someone as lacking in charisma as Mogg is laughable.
I've never been jealous of anyone but if I were, it wouldn't be of someone like that who's only accomplishment is wealth and a caricature like posh persona. He's a joke.

ToneControl

hywelg said:

How well does anyone spouting venom actually know Jacob Rees Mogg anyway? Or is it just that he is well off, talks in way seen as 'posh'  and a Tory, that makes people dislike him. Has anyone actually met him in order to formulate these views or are they just going on what they've seen of him in the media?

That's the funny thing, Whilst I'd never vote for him, I find that in interviews he seems far more genuine and honest than most MPs. Sure he is living in a different world to most people, it's his duty to overcome that, and we can assess how well he does in that endeavour. I saw a good documentary where, with Jess Phillips, he drove around their constituencies and discussed stuff - quite interesting. 

IIRC Heseltine was far richer btw. 

I find Mogg quite entertaining, especially when people debate with him, and assume he's some dumb Lord Snooty

Kilgore

hywelg said:

How well does anyone spouting venom actually know Jacob Rees Mogg anyway? Or is it just that he is well off, talks in way seen as 'posh'  and a Tory, that makes people dislike him. Has anyone actually met him in order to formulate these views or are they just going on what they've seen of him in the media?

I find him very entertaining. He makes The Queen look nouveau riche.

Artsutanov

p90fool said:

@Roland I totally get that, I really do, but the incessant implication that if we're not keen on an artist's new album we must be jealous, or if we disagree with a politician's priorities we have a "chip on the shoulder" because we weren't born millionaires gets really tedious. 

I like my life, have straddled the incessant touring/too many guitars fence and after weighing my life down with pointless crap in the past have literally no desire to live in a mansion, have "nanny issues" or wear a monocle. 

Not caring about or wanting those things does not make me bitter, unsuccessful or automatically some kind of loser. 

Snags

hywelg said:

How well does anyone spouting venom actually know Jacob Rees Mogg anyway? Or is it just that he is well off, talks in way seen as 'posh'  and a Tory, that makes people dislike him. Has anyone actually met him in order to formulate these views or are they just going on what they've seen of him in the media?

Well, I've not spouted venom (yet) and I've never met him, but I can honestly say that my distaste for JRM isn't because he's posh, or wealthy, or even particularly because he's out of touch (although that last is a fault in someone who is supposed to be an MP in the Commons in my opinion).

It's because of pretty much all of the policies he supports, and many of the views he professes. On the odd occasion I've seen him eviscerated for things where, actually, he kinda had a point but everyone just expected him to be a soul-less right-wing bastard so reacted on assumption not what was said, and I had some mild sympathy. But there's a reason why people expect him to be that, and it's not because he looks like the lovechild of Lord Snooty and Walter the Softie.

Never met him, but pretty bloody sure I wouldn't have much common ground with him or with "Tommy Robinson" based on their public professions. My distaste for Yaxley-Lennon certainly isn't class-based, or wealth-based. Neither is my distaste for JRM.

Winny_Pooh

@hywelg ;
@ToneControl ;
@Kilgore ;

You find him amusing? Do you have daughters?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41172426

hywelg

Winny_Pooh said:

@hywelg ;
@ToneControl ;
@Kilgore ;

You find him amusing? Do you have daughters?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41172426

No I don't and would argue there is no place for religion in the governance of the country. We don't and shouldn't frame our laws based on superstitious nonsense.  But that doesn't make him a "cunt".

ToneControl

Winny_Pooh said:

@hywelg ;
@ToneControl ;
@Kilgore ;

You find him amusing? Do you have daughters?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41172426

yeah, I saw that interview when it was first published
He's a committed Catholic, that's the teaching of his religion, IIRC he was quite clear on his beliefs vs what he though parliament would do.  

Nevertheless I've seen a variety of stances taken on whether politicians should be criticised for holding religious beliefs. What's your opinion?

Is he allowed to believe things like that? At least he's honest about it

btw, are you aware that abortion is currently illegal in part of the UK? It was in Ireland too, until last year.

Kilgore

Winny_Pooh said:

@hywelg ;
@ToneControl ;
@Kilgore ;

You find him amusing? Do you have daughters?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41172426

Yes, I can find him amusing and vehemently disagree with many of his views at the same time. 

If he starts harassing women outside family planning clinics I wouldn't find it funny but until then I can happily accept that he has views I don't share.

p90fool

I didn't start this thread to discuss the merits or otherwise if JRM tbh, just the implication that disagreeing with his political outlook signals that I'm obviously a tramp living in a skipful of fish heads who obviously wants to BE him, with all the cap tugging envy that suggests. 

I don't want to be him, he doubtless doesn't want to be me, we're both happy. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Fair enough, but then you have to agree that if I think someone is a cockend on here, it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

p90fool

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Fair enough, but then you have to agree that if I think someone is a cockend on here, it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

Well I certainly wouldn't assume you were jealous of them!