Anyone else bored to death by mainstream guitars?

Arjailer

crunchman said:

Arjailer said:

p90fool said:

but if you think Gibson and Fender haven't been doing exactly what you're asking for decade after decade then you're not paying attention. 

Yep - they totally have done those things - as have many other smaller manufacturers - and many continue to do so. And those guitars are a tiny minority of those available, and are sometimes difficult to find and try - and yes, that's because the vast majority of guitarists don't want those things. Can't dispute any of that.

And the result is that I (and others in here) find mainstream guitars to be utterly boring. As fields5069 said, I find most guitar shops to be just a huge wall of blandness 'cos that's what sells  

Nothing I can do about that - I'm never going to, nor would I even want to, change anyone's minds - everyone's entitled to like what they want to like. So I'll remain "grudgingly tolerant" as merciful-evans put it   

I get what you mean.  Most would go for a  mainstream car like a Golf or Focus, but then you will find someone who wants a lime green Hyundai Veloster.  No accounting for taste.

  When it comes to cars I'm as mainstream as they come (a 2013 blue Ford Fiesta). Though I doubt that'd be the case if 90% of cars were still copying this   




And not liking grandpa guitars doesn't automatically mean I want a "lime green Hyundai Veloster" either     I actually like my guitars quite plain. But I've never cared about historical authenticity, and I don't really like a lot of what I think of as the "old fashioned" elements you get on a lot of guitars - scratchplates, sunbursts, overly dramatic flametops, bigsby's, contrasting pickup rings, zebra pickups, toggle switch rings on LPs, couldn't care less about nitro finishes etc.

So yes, as RichardT said, it's all about personal taste. It's just that the mainstream taste makes things like guitar shops, and reading forums like this (particularly most NGD threads) quite boring for me as they're chock full of stuff I just can't get excited about. And none of this is really a big deal, but the OP asked "anyone else bored to death by mainstream guitars?" and, yes, I am   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

thegummy

Arjailer said:

crunchman said:

I get what you mean.  Most would go for a  mainstream car like a Golf or Focus, but then you will find someone who wants a lime green Hyundai Veloster.  No accounting for taste.

  When it comes to cars I'm as mainstream as they come (a 2013 blue Ford Fiesta). Though I doubt that'd be the case if 90% of cars were still copying this   

And not liking grandpa guitars doesn't automatically mean I want a "lime green Hyundai Veloster" either     I actually like my guitars quite plain. But I've never cared about historical authenticity, and I don't really like a lot of what I think of as the "old fashioned" elements you get on a lot of guitars - scratchplates, sunbursts, overly dramatic flametops, bigsby's, contrasting pickup rings, zebra pickups, toggle switch rings on LPs, couldn't care less about nitro finishes etc.

So yes, as RichardT said, it's all about personal taste. It's just that the mainstream taste makes things like guitar shops, and reading forums like this (particularly most NGD threads) quite boring for me as they're chock full of stuff I just can't get excited about. And none of this is really a big deal, but the OP asked "anyone else bored to death by mainstream guitars?" and, yes, I am   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think the reason most people don't want a car like the one in your photo is that for most people a car is purely a practical thing and they only want it to be as functional as possible since they're not making art or entertainment with it so there's nothing subjective involved.

There probably are companies making replicas of that kind of car now for the niche market who want one (so they don't have to urge VW to make cars like that which would be as senseless as urging those companies to make their cars more like a 2019 Golf).

As you say, personal taste comes in to it a lot more with guitars because they're used to make art so people are very specific about how they want it to sound so there will be a varied preference; just so happens the majority of people prefer older designs. Whereas with cars, the vast majority of people would rather have a car from now than from even 20 years ago never mind 60.

BTW, I think some of the things you listed are just purely personal preference and not really anything to do with old fashioned vs. modern. E.g. the early 50s Fenders didn't have flame maple or sunburst.

P.S. I like most guitars, especially the old fashioned ones and I don't get excited about guitar shops (or any other kind of shops) or NGD threads. I don't think you're missing out on much due to your preference, they're just relatively boring things  

crunchman

thegummy said:

As you say, personal taste comes in to it a lot more with guitars because they're used to make art so people are very specific about how they want it to sound so there will be a varied preference; just so happens the majority of people prefer older designs. Whereas with cars, the vast majority of people would rather have a car from now than from even 20 years ago never mind 60.

I'd rather have a car that looks like the ones from 50 or 60 years ago than the boring looking ones you can get now.  They had some character back then.  Now they all look the same.

My ideal car would have modern engine, electronics, brakes, and steering in a cool 1960's body shell.

RichardT

Modern cars are objectively 'better' in all sorts of measurable ways - performance, space efficiency, safety, economy, recyclability, ride quality, soundproofing, etc., etc. (Aesthetic aspects are mostly subjective.)

I'm not at all convinced that the same applies to guitars.

btw could somebody post / point me to the working definition of 'grandad guitar' just so we're all clear on the terms of reference?

lysander

crunchman said:

thegummy said:

As you say, personal taste comes in to it a lot more with guitars because they're used to make art so people are very specific about how they want it to sound so there will be a varied preference; just so happens the majority of people prefer older designs. Whereas with cars, the vast majority of people would rather have a car from now than from even 20 years ago never mind 60.

I'd rather have a car that looks like the ones from 50 or 60 years ago than the boring looking ones you can get now.  They had some character back then.  Now they all look the same.

My ideal car would have modern engine, electronics, brakes, and steering in a cool 1960's body shell.

I somewhat agree with the sentiment on the looks but there's a big issue here - the problem with the old shells that looked better is that they're deathtraps if you hit anything, both for the occupants and pedestrians. I'm not a safety nut, but still think safety should trump nostalgia.

rossi

They are all just musical instruments .None will make you sound better than you are .Some may give you the sound you seek but at the same time that sound may well be hated by everyone else.Just play .A few upgrades to your playing are better than an upgrade to your pickups or the guitars shape.Electric guitars have evolved to cover most needs just by walking into a store and choosing .Stop listening to tone wankers and get playing .

skullfunkerry

lysander said:

crunchman said:

thegummy said:

As you say, personal taste comes in to it a lot more with guitars because they're used to make art so people are very specific about how they want it to sound so there will be a varied preference; just so happens the majority of people prefer older designs. Whereas with cars, the vast majority of people would rather have a car from now than from even 20 years ago never mind 60.

I'd rather have a car that looks like the ones from 50 or 60 years ago than the boring looking ones you can get now.  They had some character back then.  Now they all look the same.

My ideal car would have modern engine, electronics, brakes, and steering in a cool 1960's body shell.

I somewhat agree with the sentiment on the looks but there's a big issue here - the problem with the old shells that looked better is that they're deathtraps if you hit anything, both for the occupants and pedestrians. I'm not a safety nut, but still think safety should trump nostalgia.

So if I bang into a mic stand while I'm playing my superstrat I'm far less likely to get injured than if I was playing a '59 burst

Arjailer

RichardT said:

btw could somebody post / point me to the working definition of 'grandad guitar' just so we're all clear on the terms of reference? 

No definition that I know of - I picked it up from here:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/139196/the-allure-of-the-headstock/p1

BloodEagle

rossi said:

They are all just musical instruments .None will make you sound better than you are .Some may give you the sound you seek but at the same time that sound may well be hated by everyone else.Just play .A few upgrades to your playing are better than an upgrade to your pickups or the guitars shape.Electric guitars have evolved to cover most needs just by walking into a store and choosing .Stop listening to tone wankers and get playing .

The point is that some will make you sound better than you are, and look way cooler as well, otherwise why bother

RichardT

Arjailer said:

RichardT said:

btw could somebody post / point me to the working definition of 'grandad guitar' just so we're all clear on the terms of reference? 

No definition that I know of - I picked it up from here:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/139196/the-allure-of-the-headstock/p1

Fair enough, though as the poster concerned is apparently a serial Fender CS buyer I suspect an ironic tinge to the term. Anyway, we all have our prejudices, I know I have plenty: faked up relics, pointy things, buying anything new (did it precisely once: a 2015 SG, dirt cheap for all the obvious reasons and rapidly moved on for the same reasons), etc. I'll also cheerfully cough to associating essentially American music with American instruments, but as I'm perpetually broke I head for the margins: my Grandad Fenders are/were Musicmasters, Bullets and Leads, and they sit beside old Peaveys and Guilds, all comparatively cheap. (I also own Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian and Mexican instruments, but none of them on the basis of their aesthetic or technical modernity.) Full disclosure: I also drive, by choice, a Landrover Defender.

RichardT

Arjailer said:

RichardT said:

btw could somebody post / point me to the working definition of 'grandad guitar' just so we're all clear on the terms of reference? 

No definition that I know of - I picked it up from here:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/139196/the-allure-of-the-headstock/p1

Fair enough, though as the poster concerned is apparently a serial Fender CS customer I can't help but suspect an ironic element to the term in context. In the end we all have our prejudices for and agin', I have loads: don't like faked-up relics, or pointy things or sparkly things, or paying new prices ( done so precisely once, a 2015 SG bought cheap as chips for the usual reasons and swiftly moved on for those same reasons), or facsimiles of original designs, etc. I also associate essentially American music with American instruments, but am too mean to buy mainstream collectables, so head for the affordable margins: old Peaveys, Guilds, Fullerton oddities like Bullets and Leads, etc. We like what we like, no point pretending this stuff is rational. Or maybe it's just me, I choose to drive a Landrover Defender so I'm probably not representative of anything much.

RichardT

Duplicate post binned

RichardT

Duplicate post binned

Greatape

https://www.reverendguitars.com

gringopig

.

Wonky

gringopig said:

There are no 'grandad' guitars, only 'grandad' music. You can play tedious cliched old crap on anything and having a modern design and high tech graphite whatnots and fanned frets won't make it any less tedious.

That comment just made me go and try playing pentatonic blues on an 8 string fanfret guitar and I can actually confirm that it did indeed sound exactly like when my grandad used to play blues (not often that mind cos he was a Jazzer through and through).
I totally believe though that all the young, modern, forward looking, technically advanced player aren't buying guitars from shops anymore.  Most are having guitars custom made for them by luthiers or at very least having signature models made by manufactures that are not stuck in the 50's and 60's.  There's even a better Strat made by PRS, and why would this even be a thing? The younger generation are not seeing the vintage guitars as the future and therefore they are looking elsewhere and not in the guitar shops.
I think this is because the shops do not cater for them in anyway.  I personally know some totally amazing younger guitarists at the absolute top of their game, at the cutting edge of the instrument and not many of them buy off the shelf guitar models.
Now I'm not saying that they can't do what they do on a standard strat or lester, but they totally choose not to do so.  Instead they treat the instrument more like a personal expression, as they do with their own playing.  Kind of makes sense when you think about it.  Like I said before, if you play what everyone else plays you will sound like everyone else.
I'm absolutely a fusionist at heart and for me that means using the lessons of the past, but applying them to something new.  Forward looking and thinking.  I own a guitar that sounds like a Les Paul, but is built and plays so much better.  It's also got the correct amount of frets, 24 and has access that makes them possible to use too even though its a single cut away.  There is no way a Gibson Les Paul could do what this could, even though the sound is the same.  I'm also not talking about high gain pickups here, remember I'm a Jazzer at heart and turning the tone knob down and using the neck pickup is very good replacement for my archtop with this guitar.
My point is that if the big manufactures don't try to compete in this modern market that the op is right in that one day they will be obsolete simply by the music these instruments have been used to make becoming unpopular.  The reason their attempts at modernisation has never worked is that it's so half hearted an attempt to capture the modern players that it's apart from ironically being a poor imitation of the real innovative part of the market, they're also really cursed by their double edged sword of being stuck in the past, appealing to older generations of people playing older music.
It's very similar to whats happening on the gig scene at the moment, where tribute acts have become the main attraction and forward looking original music has become hard to sell, but it doesn't take a genius to see that this will eventually kill live music dead. 
For instance in twenty years time, what will a cover band be playing?   Something from 50 years ago or what?  Doubt it.  It's the same reason there's no real replacements for the talents that are passing away every day on the news.  There are no Jimmy Pages and Eric Clapton's to replace those guys, as everyone is way too focused on Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton to see the next Jason Becker or Steve Via or who ever and before anyone says anything, I'm aware that us guitarist have different hero's to the general population, but if in 30 years time you can imagine someone doing Ariana Grande or Stormzy covers using a guitar you're doing better than me?  More likely a computer!
If you disagree, ask yourself this, do you know who Jason Richardson is, or Jan Zelhrfeld. Or even what type of guitar does Guthrie Goven plays?
To the detriment of what we do guitarists have always spent far to long only looking backwards and not using the knowledge of the past to design the future.  Bearing in mind all this, I'm a Jazz guy at heart (although ironically Jazz is and has always been the most forward looking and backwards looking genre of them all (even if not the most popular (("Even God hates Jazz"(the Simpsons)))).
Right, rant over.  You can now get back to your Minor Penatonics.

gringopig

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thegummy

I watch a lot of new indie bands and at least 90% of the guitars used are Fender.

p90fool

Wis'd @gringopig ;

Jetsam1

thegummy said:

I watch a lot of new indie bands and at least 90% of the guitars used are Fender.

And she has a Squier.....! Just shows I suppose. Also maybe Fenders are cheaper to pick up than Gibsons second hand?