Question about Wireless (and ground isolation)

thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
Hi all

I feel I have significant noise issues (have mentioned it several times before!) although I'm led to believe it may be more to do with my lack tolerance of said noise. Mrs reckons I have some very form of misophonia as certain frequencies of noise do bother me, I jump out of my skin at the kitchen cupboard doors closing even when I myself have closed them!

However, back to the noise. Has happened in two separate houses with various guitars, pickups, amps and pedals etc. There are only two ways I've found to remove it - a Variax guitar, and an old cheap Audio Technica (i think, will check later) wireless system thing. It's quite old so I don't think it's of the same type of thing as the Line 6 or Smooth Hound type products, radio frequency maybe rather than digital? Who knows.

I believed the reason this worked was because of isolating the ground from the instrument. However an Orchid Effects ground isolator (and a crappy Behringer one) do not work the same. With those, the noise reduces when I don't touch the strings, but is worse when I do touch them which is odd.

I have a TC Send/receive long cable run DI type thing ( https://www.tcelectronic.com/Categories/Tcelectronic/Guitar/Accessories/GLR/p/P0CPP#googtrans(en|en) ) to try out , hopefully do so tonight or this weekend, which also has ground isolation apparently, but I'm not sure it worked either when I quickly tried it before.

So does anybody know why the wireless works for this but other ground isolating things do not? If I were to upgrade to a decent wireless system like the Line 6 or Smooth Hound ones, will they also work?

Thanks all
Matt
She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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Comments

  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    edited August 1
    The teleporter didn't work (ie noise is the same with or without, with ground switch up or down).

    Does the collective mega brain of the fretboard have any ideas on this?

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  • TeleMasterTeleMaster Frets: 670
    edited August 1
    How are you powering the pedals?

    Does it do it with a different amp/guitar?

    Does it do it when you play at a studio with your stuff or anywhere except your home?
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5433
    What pitch is the noise?  Is it 50Hz hum, or is it higher pitched?  HIgher pitched can be caused by cheap pedal power supplies.

    It might be possible to use some kind of low pass filter to reduce 50Hz hum.  The low E on a guitar is 82 Hz.

    Are you using single coils or humbuckers?  Single coils will pick up stuff that gets cancelled out by humbuckers.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    edited August 2
    I don't think it's 50hz I think it's static noises. It's also not the guitar pedals or power supplies as it's happened with single coils, humbuckers, EMGs, p90s, with pedals or not, with cheap power supplies or with a Trex fuel tank, variety of amps and modelling units

    I'm not really going to solve the noise being caused I just kind of want to check if another wireless system would work as mine is old and battered, or if there was any other method like that which would perform the same function (whatever it is that the wireless is doing to stop the noise)
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5433
    I don't think it's 50hz I think it's static noises. It's also not the guitar pedals or power supplies as it's happened with single coils, humbuckers, EMGs, p90s, with pedals or not, with cheap power supplies or with a Trex fuel tank, variety of amps and modelling units

    I'm not really going to solve the noise being caused I just kind of want to check if another wireless system would work as mine is old and battered, or if there was any other method like that which would perform the same function (whatever it is that the queries is doing to stop the noise)
    Handling noise from a lead?

    Wireless would fix that.   It might be possible to fix it with a different lead.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    crunchman said:
    I don't think it's 50hz I think it's static noises. It's also not the guitar pedals or power supplies as it's happened with single coils, humbuckers, EMGs, p90s, with pedals or not, with cheap power supplies or with a Trex fuel tank, variety of amps and modelling units

    I'm not really going to solve the noise being caused I just kind of want to check if another wireless system would work as mine is old and battered, or if there was any other method like that which would perform the same function (whatever it is that the queries is doing to stop the noise)
    Handling noise from a lead?

    Wireless would fix that.   It might be possible to fix it with a different lead.
    Many different leads, all the same :)
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    Anybody got their Sunday brain on that might be able to help on this?

    Main question is, why does wireless remove noise when other ground isolating things don't? Secondary question is, will another better wireless system than what I have do the same trick?

    Thanks

    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    I'm guessing not but if anybody does know about this quandary would be great if you could give me a shout. Thanks
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • WonkyWonky Frets: 119
    Could it be a fluorescent light thing?  I had a friend years ago that had a problem with them, but as I'm saying it I don't think your problem is that.  I can't remember much about it cos it was a long, long time ago, just that with the lights off the problem disappeared.
    If you live anywhere near me, you can borrow my wireless system for a week to test for yourself.  I'm in South Wales and I have a Line 6 G75 system.
    I've never had the problem you speak of with or with out the wireless system, so I'm no help in that way, but if you're close you can try it yourself.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    That's very kind mate but I'm over in Birmingham so bit of a trek unfortunately.

    I'm not sure what it is really, but it was exactly the same where I used to live (different town, different age of house, different lighting). I thought it might have been the burglar alarm back there but I am not sure that could be the same here as I've a completely different alarm set up here.

    Whether lights are on or off it's the same (I do often play guitar and piano in the dark, weird as that may seem, it's refreshing). There is a dimmer switch downstairs here but there was not at the last House

    Here's a recording of it with some awful playing for comedic effect




    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • WonkyWonky Frets: 119
    If I'm honest that sounds like an earthing problem on your guitar.  Like when you take your hands off the strings.  Is the bridge earthed?  
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    Yeah people have suggested that before but I've had about 12 different guitars since I've been playing and they've all done exactly the same thing
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  • WonkyWonky Frets: 119
    Yeah people have suggested that before but I've had about 12 different guitars since I've been playing and they've all done exactly the same thing
    Can't be that then.  At the start of your recording it sounded like you had a noise gate on and it was noise sneaking in before the gate kicked in, but later on it didn't sound at all like you had a gate in there.  I wouldn't of thought you'd even need a gate for that amount of gain anyway (nice tone by the way).  I'm thinking that as a process of elimination it has to be the one thing in your system that hasn't changed.  I mean it can't be your guitar if all of them have done it and it might not be your house if two different houses sounded the same.  You said you tried different cables, so I'm assuming different cables and makes over time (I recently had what seemed a really high quality cable given to me that wasn't my usual high quality Neutrik/Van damm preference that turned out to be a noise magnet!!!).  What about effects pedals or the amp you use?
    I use a Helix myself these days, which itself has a ground lift button, but I've never had to use it.
    Many years ago when I was playing the circuits in South Wales, we'd occasionally play a pub or club that had shit wiring that would cause a slight hum.  Not really much of a problem if you're blasting the shit out of your amps, but would of totally been a pain in the ass at home.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    edited August 10
    There aren't any common factors unfortunately except myself - I have suspected I'm actually some sort of static antennae to be honest as I have static shocked my Barber on several occasions in the past whilst having a haircut...

    Next time I Hulk out the laptop I might try to record just the static noise and see what the frequency is, to see if I can eq it out without affecting the sound but I'm pretty sure I've tried that before and there was crossover with the guitar sound so didn't sound as good.

    I don't think I changed any settings when I did that video to be honest, just straight into the gsp. The noise gates on there never get switched on as they mess with the reverbs and note decay
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • WonkyWonky Frets: 119
    It's a mad thing, but some people are more prone to electrical static stuff than others for sure.  Maybe try earthing yourself like someone working on electronics or computers would do?  Could be worth a shot if you've tried everything else.
    A graphic EQ or maybe a parametric EQ would be a good way of isolating the frequency.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    I've asked my brother in law about what computer techs wear to ground them as that's what he does, but from googling the wrist band things it looks like an extra cable crocodile clipped to the guitar that might get in the way whilst flinging my hand about trying to play. Also do I really want to be connected to something with potential grounding issues? We shall see...if you guys never hear from me again, you'll know why :)

    I'm trying to investigate if it's perhaps static electricity, as I do get a lot of static shocks in day to day life and as I've said above, several times I've even static shocked my barber whilst having a trim just by sitting there. Things can get a bit dusty in my spare room as the Mrs uses it as a dumping ground and I can't clean it as much as I would like to - does that contribute?

    All internet wisdom seems to be contradicted by my experiences - every discussion on it says the same, test your cables, ground your guitar, change to humbuckers, stop wearing the nylon knickers etc. All very logical stuff but when it has happened with loads of different guitars in different locations, it can't be the normal factors can it?
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 42955
    edited August 12
    If you've tried EMGs (did you remove the ground wire to the bridge? EMGs don't need it), and that didn't work but the Variax did, my honest suggestion is to learn to live with the Variax.

    If you didn't like the actual guitar, it's possible to have the Variax electronics built into something else - it won't be cheap, but if it solves the problem then it's probably worth it. It should also have the advantage that you will only ever need one guitar (or two, if you need a backup).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 4747
    edited August 12
    Yeah I got EMGs because they didn't need a ground to the bridge, as I've no idea how to wire pickups whereas they were just plug in and play. Take the point re the Variax but to be honest, the wireless system is cheaper and enables me to use any instrument I like - I'm just unsure whether any other wireless systems like the newer ones would perform the same trick (as my current one is on its last legs)

    Prices for Variax guitars seems to be about 3x what I struggled to sell mine for in the past, but I do always keep my eyes open for a JTV69 at a reasonable price just in case
    She's the tear that hangs inside my soul forever
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