I know it's become a cliche...

markr76

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

And I've never really bought into the idea that punk made such a difference.  Of course it was huge - and hugely influential - for those that liked it, but the likes of Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis as well as more mainstream acts like Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac and The Eagles were hardly swept aside.  They probably barely noticed unless they were reading the music press at the time.  Phil Collins may have said Genesis couldn't get arrested at the time but their biggest success - by far - was still to come.

And as for the singles and albums charts - Abba, Boney M, ELO, Meat Loaf, the Grease and Saturday Night Fever soundtracks.  I don't think any of them were losing sleep over X-Ray Spex either.

I like all those too - well OK, I'd draw the line at Boney M - and I quite like Zeppelin as well, on record... Plant's screeching is more understated and Page at least keeps things fairly to the point.

It's that sort of tedious overblown self-indulgent live performance that's the problem - and why punk was needed to give it a well-deserved kick in the balls. Zeppelin were far from the only culprits.

I agree with this. I think the same applies to the grunge era (which I was a massive fan of! And still am!)
Led Zep are one of my favourite bands, although I’m too young to have seen them live. A friend of mine at work watched them in the 70’s and he said there was a 30-40 minute long drum solo! That’s just wrong!
I thought the same when I saw AC/DC live. Angus broke into a guitar solo after every song. It would have been ok a couple of times in the gig, but became pretty tedious, pretty quickly. They could have played a couple more songs instead!
Still though, if I had a time machine. I’d love to have seen zep in their early days.

Philly_Q

markr76 said:

Led Zep are one of my favourite bands, although I’m too young to have seen them live. A friend of mine at work watched them in the 70’s and he said there was a 30-40 minute long drum solo! That’s just wrong!
I thought the same when I saw AC/DC live. Angus broke into a guitar solo after every song. It would have been ok a couple of times in the gig, but became pretty tedious, pretty quickly. They could have played a couple more songs instead!

I like to see bands play something different from the studio tracks, it doesn't happen enough, especially now that every venue seems to have a curfew.

But I'd prefer the whole band to indulge in extended jams, like Govt Mule or the Grateful Dead.  The rock/metal bands I went to see always did extended solo spots and I always found them boring, although drum solos are generally not as tedious as unaccompanied guitar solos.

Of course they're opportunities for the singer and other band members to have a cigarette or other refreshment...

Kittyfrisk

markr76 said:

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

And I've never really bought into the idea that punk made such a difference.  Of course it was huge - and hugely influential - for those that liked it, but the likes of Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis as well as more mainstream acts like Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac and The Eagles were hardly swept aside.  They probably barely noticed unless they were reading the music press at the time.  Phil Collins may have said Genesis couldn't get arrested at the time but their biggest success - by far - was still to come.

And as for the singles and albums charts - Abba, Boney M, ELO, Meat Loaf, the Grease and Saturday Night Fever soundtracks.  I don't think any of them were losing sleep over X-Ray Spex either.

I like all those too - well OK, I'd draw the line at Boney M - and I quite like Zeppelin as well, on record... Plant's screeching is more understated and Page at least keeps things fairly to the point.

It's that sort of tedious overblown self-indulgent live performance that's the problem - and why punk was needed to give it a well-deserved kick in the balls. Zeppelin were far from the only culprits.

I agree with this. I think the same applies to the grunge era (which I was a massive fan of! And still am!)
Led Zep are one of my favourite bands, although I’m too young to have seen them live. A friend of mine at work watched them in the 70’s and he said there was a 30-40 minute long drum solo! That’s just wrong!
I thought the same when I saw AC/DC live. Angus broke into a guitar solo after every song. It would have been ok a couple of times in the gig, but became pretty tedious, pretty quickly. They could have played a couple more songs instead!
Still though, if I had a time machine. I’d love to have seen zep in their early days.

I saw AC/DC in Newcastle Uni. in 1976. Bon Scott carried Angus on his shoulders through the crowd (shallow stage riser, crowd sat on the floor/jumping about) and walked right by me. Some twat threw some beer at Angus, but they didn't miss a beat, fantastic gig.
There was some consternation about 1975 in the Angel in Durham when I got the landlady to put New York Dolls Jet Boy/Vietnamese Baby on the jukebox. The Lynrd Skynrd fans were not impressed.
Punk/New wave was a real breath of fresh air, well once the gobbing thing went away...

Grumpyrocker

Oh Christ not this inane punk v prog rock bollocks rearing its head. Punk was just one of many many genres that came and went in the 70s, and only a year or three after prog rock really got started anyway. Punk sold some singles, more than a few newspapers, formed plenty of boy bands, and didn't dent the sales of The Wall one bit. The punk myth is so tiresome. 

skullfunkerry

Philly_Q said:

markr76 said:

Led Zep are one of my favourite bands, although I’m too young to have seen them live. A friend of mine at work watched them in the 70’s and he said there was a 30-40 minute long drum solo! That’s just wrong!
I thought the same when I saw AC/DC live. Angus broke into a guitar solo after every song. It would have been ok a couple of times in the gig, but became pretty tedious, pretty quickly. They could have played a couple more songs instead!

I like to see bands play something different from the studio tracks, it doesn't happen enough, especially now that every venue seems to have a curfew.

But I'd prefer the whole band to indulge in extended jams, like Govt Mule or the Grateful Dead.  The rock/metal bands I went to see always did extended solo spots and I always found them boring, although drum solos are generally not as tedious as unaccompanied guitar solos.

Of course they're opportunities for the singer and other band members to have a cigarette or other refreshment...

I really like the Alchemy: Live versions of Sultans of Swing and Telegraph Road, with the extra solos in - but as part of the song, not just a ten-minute solo spot (which, unless I'm watching a Joe Satriani or Paul Gilbert gig, I'm really not a fan of)

p90fool

Grumpyrocker said:

Oh Christ not this inane punk v prog rock bollocks rearing its head. Punk was just one of many many genres that came and went in the 70s, and only a year or three after prog rock really got started anyway. Punk sold some singles, more than a few newspapers, formed plenty of boy bands, and didn't dent the sales of The Wall one bit. The punk myth is so tiresome. 

Wis'd. Although I'd rather hear New Rose ten times over than any Pink Floyd album it always strikes me that people whose lives were changed by a teenage fashion can never grasp that to everyone else it was just a haircut. 

Blueingreen

Led Zeppelin are a kind of "grey area" band for me:  I'm not really a fan, but they are the closest thing to a heavy rock band that I actually like. I think mainly because the blues influence is so pervasive.  I really like "Since I've Been Loving You", "Dazed and Confused" "Kashmir" and at least half a dozen other tracks.

I did see them live back in the 70s, and was disappointed especially by Page as a soloist - I thought there was an awful lot of self-indulgent fast widdling without much control or structure, even by 70s blues-rocker standards.  He obviously had other skills besides being an electric guitar soloist, and to be fair a handful of his recorded solos are very fine, but I've always been a little surprised by how high he tends to come in "greatest guitarist" lists.  I don't like his tone on most of their stuff, although there are exceptions, mainly on the slower, bluesier songs.

Plant was one of the progenitors of a singing style I really don't like, that whole high operatic rock thing.  For some reason I mind him doing it less than all the others, maybe just because I've heard enough of him to get a bit used to it.

When I saw them a close pal of mine (he played keys in a band we were both in) wanted to hang around at the end to see if he could meet the band, and asked me to wait with him (along with our girlfriends.)  I thought it was a waste of time, not to mention a bit too crawly, so I didn't.  In the end he did meet the band, and had longish chats  about music with Plant and John Paul Jones, so I've always slightly regretted not giving it a go.

EricTheWeary

p90fool said:

Grumpyrocker said:

Oh Christ not this inane punk v prog rock bollocks rearing its head. Punk was just one of many many genres that came and went in the 70s, and only a year or three after prog rock really got started anyway. Punk sold some singles, more than a few newspapers, formed plenty of boy bands, and didn't dent the sales of The Wall one bit. The punk myth is so tiresome. 

Wis'd. Although I'd rather hear New Rose ten times over than any Pink Floyd album it always strikes me that people whose lives were changed by a teenage fashion can never grasp that to everyone else it was just a haircut. 

{really fighting the quotes system today}

The more lasting aspect of punk was to help open up smaller labels and studios so new wave, 2Tone, new romantics, etc,etc, are the children of punk in many ways. And whilst it wasn't stopping people buying Abba or Boney M singles the middle of the road acts occupying the lower reaches of the charts tended to disappear ( The Nolans, the pub rock scene bands) as they became terminally unhip. And it clearly didn't kill prog rock but there are certainly interviews with the likes of Genesis and ELO saying they couldn't do business in the UK at that time ( and had to go tour the States or play sports halls in Baden-Baden). Whilst someone like Jo Whiley saying 'The Clash are our year zero' makes me want to stab her in the neck I think it's also untrue to say that punk was just a fashion that had no impact elsewhere. 

SquireJapan

Plus it is a huge barn of a place and the sound isn't always that good (that said - Prince, Arctic Monkeys & Queen + Adam Lambert sounded great). 

... hell of a line up that night  

jdgm

I saw LZ twice.

June 28 1969, Bath Festival. They were on for about 45 minutes and the most exciting thing I'd seen - the day before my 15th birthday, so I hadn't seen very much!

A year later, Bath Festival again, at the Shepton Mallet showground. They knew they'd made it by then and went on far too long.  Arrogant and self-indulgent IMO; I lost interest soon after that (having played LZ2 to death) and stopped following them.

Re this vid; as with any live performance - you HAD to be there I think.

melod

I don’t want to go on an academic analysis of Led Zeppelin. 

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

Also , let’s keep in mind most of his led zep output was 19-25 yo.

I do love his O2 performance though. A much better singer even a step down (although still most male singers would struggle there).

Philly_Q

melod said:

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

If only someone had given Greta Van Fleet that advice.

proggy

Philly_Q said:

melod said:

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

If only someone had given Greta Van Fleet that advice.

And Kingdom Come.

munckee

proggy said:

Philly_Q said:

melod said:

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

If only someone had given Greta Van Fleet that advice.

And Kingdom Come.

And Rolf.

earwighoney

Philly_Q said:

melod said:

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

If only someone had given Greta Van Fleet that advice.

I'd never heard of that band before. 

They are like a Meme Led Zeppelin. 

proggy

munckee said:

proggy said:

Philly_Q said:

melod said:

I do do remember a teacher in Berklee College of music telling us when we were assigned to redo a song: “Please don’t cover Led Zeppelin. Whatever you do , without Plant it will sound silly”.

If only someone had given Greta Van Fleet that advice.

And Kingdom Come.

And Rolf.

Do you mean the Stairway cover, or the girlfriend thing?

bodhi

ICBM said:

- and I quite like Zeppelin as well, on record... Plant's screeching is more understated and Page at least keeps things fairly to the point.

Presumably more understated because in the studio he wasn't under so much pressure to have his plumbing strapped to his left thigh.

mudslide73

I'm a big fan but I can see it's not for everyone. I sometimes think I love them because I was too young to see them at the time. I know people who did and weren't massively blown away. Tbf there are some great bootlegs where they're utterly fantastic.. especially in the 69-73 time period. 

Perrygoround

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

And I've never really bought into the idea that punk made such a difference.  Of course it was huge - and hugely influential - for those that liked it, but the likes of Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis as well as more mainstream acts like Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac and The Eagles were hardly swept aside.  They probably barely noticed unless they were reading the music press at the time.  Phil Collins may have said Genesis couldn't get arrested at the time but their biggest success - by far - was still to come.

And as for the singles and albums charts - Abba, Boney M, ELO, Meat Loaf, the Grease and Saturday Night Fever soundtracks.  I don't think any of them were losing sleep over X-Ray Spex either.

I like all those too - well OK, I'd draw the line at Boney M - and I quite like Zeppelin as well, on record... Plant's screeching is more understated and Page at least keeps things fairly to the point.

It's that sort of tedious overblown self-indulgent live performance that's the problem - and why punk was needed to give it a well-deserved kick in the balls. Zeppelin were far from the only culprits.

I am not a fan and that´s why.

When I was a teenager -mid 90s- I heard so much raving about them being the best RnR thing ever, so I got a couple of CDs which I enjoyed. BUT, then I bought the VHS "The Song Remains The Same" and I hated them for wasting my money on that. 800 hours of non-sense solos, Plant posing too proud of himself while doing nothing, and a lot of boring and annoying non-sense out-of-the-stage clips. JP was the only thing moving on stage in what seemed a 20 hours show that only included 8 or 9 songs.

They have some good songs, and I can appreciate the quality of their playing and a bunch of good songs, but I have a bit of an instinctive dislike for them since then.

Philly_Q

Perrygoround said:

When I was a teenager -mid 90s- I heard so much raving about them being the best RnR thing ever, so I got a couple of CDs which I enjoyed. BUT, then I bought the VHS "The Song Remains The Same" and I hated them for wasting my money on that. 800 hours of non-sense solos, Plant posing too proud of himself while doing nothing, and a lot of boring and annoying non-sense out-of-the-stage clips. JP was the only thing moving on stage in what seemed a 20 hours show that only included 8 or 9 songs.

They have some good songs, and I can appreciate the quality of their playing and a bunch of good songs, but I have a bit of an instinctive dislike for them since then.

That reminds me, when I was about 15 or 16 I saw The Song Remains The Same in the cinema, a few years after the original release.  At the time Swansea Odeon was a very big single-screen cinema, so full of rock fans for a one-off screening it felt like almost like going to a gig.  I found it absolutely mesmerising.