Help me with my picking technique

fastonebaz

I've never been very efficient at picking.  I've been trying to change this but i can't seem to. I'm very much a legato / tapping type player when I need speed. Some players just blaze across the strings with their pick and it amazes me.

Here's a little clip of my picking technique.  Can anyone help with any constructive advice about what looks wrong with it and how I might adapt to get more efficient/faster at picking?

Jetfire

Have you watched the Ben Eller pickslanting video? I'm working on it ATM and it's a real eye opener, may be worth spending ten minutes on it

What you are doing there is cross picking and that's a hell of a skill to get right but I like what you've done,sounds  good.

stratman3142

Your picking looks and sounds good and clean at the speed you're playing. I'm no expert because I struggle with this, but it looks like you might have a bit of a 'bounce' going on. I believe this can actually be good for the crosspicking arpeggio things you're doing, but can limit speed for other things, which might benefit from pick slanting.

My natural picking approach is to 'bounce' as well, and I continue to work on faster picking.

Again I'm no expert and I always think of you as a more technical shredder than me. Troy Grady has some interesting things to say on this. It might be worth getting some views from his forum.

The 'bounce' is referred to at 13:19 in the video below.

Downward and upward pick slanting are described at 15:37 and 20.39.

digitalkettle

My advice (for what it's worth) would be to decide how you want to tackle the passage and stick to it throughout (for learning purposes). I think I saw a mix of economy/sweeping, legato, and what they call crosspicking on CtC (alternate picking where you always escape the plane of the strings). This is a good bag of skills and certainly gets the job done but it's not a narrow focus on a particular area. Maybe play everything with strict alternate picking and see how that feels.

p.s. post the tabz!

digitalkettle

digitalkettle said:

p.s. post the tabz!

This is exactly what I think you played...

https://i.imgur.com/lq1uc2g.png

First thing I noticed was your inclination to ascend across strings using an alternate approach but to descend by using a sequence of upstrokes...only, when you do apply the same stroke twice, it looks like multiple picking actions rather than a single action...it's not sweeping/economy picking: you're wasting time and energy when could just be lazily dragging the pick.

More trivially, there seems to be a mix of downstrokes and upstrokes landing on beats. I think this kind of thing can be more snappy and easier to keep the timing sharp if the downstrokes are synchronised with the beats. Not a hard and fast rule, of course.

Also, there's a change in the arpeggio shape for the final two bars...suddenly you've got a string to skip...you could rearrange this to keep things consistent and more etude-like

I think you're a really fluent player who just needs to take a piece like this and ask yourself what you want the strategy to be, e.g. alternate with a bit of legato at either end...full on sweep style...or a mix (similar to how you played it in the clip but taking the first paragraph into consideration).

I find alternately picking across five or six strings a bit uncomfortable but it's something I'm working on at the moment. Here's another exercise with a strict AP approach from Paul Davids:

fastonebaz

Thanks all.  I watched those vids.   I noticed that hipster dude had a kind of floating picking hand whereas mine is firmly anchored to thr bridge generally.  Maybe I need to watch some videos of Yngwie

Yes that's thr tab.   There's a video of a guy  playing it super fast, incredible.  Think I'm upto about 180bpm.  It feels so fast my brain can barely keep up with remembering what thr next note is,  but watching thr video it actually looks fairly slow bizarrely.   

DLM

fastonebaz said:

There's a video of a guy  playing it super fast, incredible.

Could you link us to this please?

Assuming you're going for more of an alternate picked approach: Look into Steve Morse's Tumeni Notes, and especially how Martin Miller plays it and similar lines.

Your "note attack strategy" is inconsistent and doesn't seem to follow any discernible logic. If you're going to use this in anger (bandstand/stage), you're going to need to work on muting strings you're not playing, too.

Barney

I'm not a great picker and like you I rely on legato quite a bit so I can relate ...what I have found with my picking and yours looks the same is that you seem to be over reaching on the higher strings and not moving the palm at at all 

Maybe try moving it a little towards the center of the bridge so it is equal so no over stretching ..also maybe less movement ..

I find ..I don't... if your the same I can pick well on the bottom 3 strings but then I could sometimes miss on the higher strings ..I found that the pick is going across the strings in a curve so as well as a different tone on the top strings it also places a different demand on the pick ...

fastonebaz

@DLM this guy 

Vibetronic

It already sounds really nice mate! I've been absolutely hammering my crappy picking over the last couple of years. One thing I've found useful is learning a lick so my left hand remembers it and I don't have to concentrate on what that's doing, and then really looking at my right hand, seeing where the surplus movement is, where it's inefficient, and then working on getting that better. As has been mentioned, a slight pick slant really really helps. It's just putting in time (a lot of time - I never concentrated that much on picking before, so I'm talking hours every day for 2 years) and it gets there. Not perfect yet but it's much better than it was, so I can now rip through something with confidence, whereas before, if I hadn't been practicing picking, I'd think 'nah' and just sweep or whatever. I've also found that keeping a relaxed right hand - don't grip the pick too tight or tense up as you work through stuff - makes it sound a lot better and stops it going to crap. Finally, if I'm doing a quick run, I looked a lot at where I started it, and found if I started on the A string and went back down to the E (before going up the pattern) then it established me into a much better rhythm and just starting on the E....just finding what works for you and what you're comfy with.

That being said, I wouldn't pick the above, I'd just sweep/hammer/pull my way through it 

Modulus_Amps

I liked your video, then I watched his and well...your right hand is nowhere near what he is doing, you probably need to slow it right down again and get the right hand sweeping in the same way, that will be key to unlocking the speed.

roberty

I completely changed my picking technique a few years back after nearly 20 years of playing. This video and the Troy Grady technique helped me the most:



Some general advice,

First get the motion right on a single string. Then you can figure out how to take it across strings. It feels weird at first

The riff from Bark at the Moon by Ozzy Osbourne is a good exercise with the palm muted pedaling on the A string. Palm muting should be easy when you have the right grip and movement 

roberty

Your playing is already clean mate and sounds good. You can revert back to your usual technique when you're not doing fast runs. Lots of guitarists switch into different modes when playing fast/slow

digitalkettle

roberty said:

Your playing is already clean mate and sounds good. You can revert back to your usual technique when you're not doing fast runs. Lots of guitarists switch into different modes when playing fast/slow

Yep...like I have 'fairly disciplined mode' when practicing and 'everything goes to shit mode' when pushing it at a gig

Paul31

I like alterrnate picking best personally i think like GG says best to show very little of the pick, and hold between the thumb pad and not the tip of the index but the side, i dont anchor at all either personally. Also i use the sand grip extra heavy Ibanez picks so not much flex i find them better for more speed with very little flex.

I used tremolo picking just to warm up when learning, then making it really hard with string skipping patterns building to one on the high e string to one on the low e,  then when i just used small skips they seemed easier, you need to trick the mind to an extent. I cant hybrid pick so i skip for everything now, it is much easier for me to do without thinking much which i prefer.

Then also i added licks rather than scales because of course more musical, nothing worse than just working scales i found, but diminished and augmented can sound good used now and then and of course chromatic and whole tone as well. Also to start with i found just using one string helped, and i used alot of Shawn Lane stretches also i have small fingers but just stretched them out little by little, but it took me a year to get his stretches and then built some speed but stay with it takes time.

Anyhow Good Luck!! with it all and it can be done with practice.

stratman3142

Actually I think you're doing bloody well to cross-pick that lick at the speed you do and with that level of articulation.

The original is sweep picked as noted from 0:44 on the metal guy's video, which also shows the pick directions at the bottom of the video. I think that's the only way it's possible to get close to the speed he plays it.

Not that I can play it yet and it's been driving me fxxxing nuts, and highlighted how crap I am at sweep picking. I might come back with a video if I ever get close - maybe in a year or so  

fastonebaz

Thanks all for the tips.  Watched all the videos.  I do like Guthrie, he's just so awesome.  Each of his fingers seems so strong and precise, he's actually magic.  I think the biggest take-home for me at this stage is to pick a style and focus on practising that so that becomes my normal standard technique without thinking.

fastonebaz

@stratman3142 ;
I thought i'd hit my limit when i got to 160bpm, but i revisited it every day for a week, and each evening, initially set the metronome faster than I could play it and tried to keep up but  fluffing half the notes, then winding the metronome back to my target level and finding i could do a bit faster than the day before.  Think i got to 190 or so before I got too fed up lol

Vibetronic

stratman3142 said:

Actually I think you're doing bloody well to cross-pick that lick at the speed you do and with that level of articulation.

The original is sweep picked as noted from 0:44 on the metal guy's video, which also shows the pick directions at the bottom of the video. I think that's the only way it's possible to get close to the speed he plays it.

Not that I can play it yet and it's been driving me fxxxing nuts, and highlighted how crap I am at sweep picking. I might come back with a video if I ever get close - maybe in a year or so  

I find sweep-picking easier mechanically/technically than (good) alternate picking, but I guess that shows what I practiced more years ago. Working on a muted version of it using open strings at the moment, but it's not quite there yet!

Paul31

Vibetronic said:

stratman3142 said:

Actually I think you're doing bloody well to cross-pick that lick at the speed you do and with that level of articulation.

The original is sweep picked as noted from 0:44 on the metal guy's video, which also shows the pick directions at the bottom of the video. I think that's the only way it's possible to get close to the speed he plays it.

Not that I can play it yet and it's been driving me fxxxing nuts, and highlighted how crap I am at sweep picking. I might come back with a video if I ever get close - maybe in a year or so  

I find sweep-picking easier mechanically/technically than (good) alternate picking, but I guess that shows what I practiced more years ago. Working on a muted version of it using open strings at the moment, but it's not quite there yet!

I use one of those string dampers that goes under the strings of the first fret and they have little rubber pads with a thin adhesive strip that helps no end i have found.

I started learning sweeping when the old musicians channel was on sky, i wonder if anybody remembers that programme, i really liked that programme as i was just starting out so it helped me alot. But i ditched sweeping after a while and learnt to mix my picking up more, i found i could get alsorts of licks going with just adding in some theory and using my ears. I like experimenting with playing more just to see where things lead me is great fun.

Again this is a great way to divert the mind and not over try and tense up by just making up licks and feeling the music, and then the speed just comes when you feel the need to add some in i have found.

DLM

fastonebaz said:
There's a video of a guy  playing it super fast, incredible.  Think I'm upto about 180bpm.  It feels so fast my brain can barely keep up with remembering what thr next note is,  but watching thr video it actually looks fairly slow bizarrely.   

Thanks for the link to the Potter vid. I've seen him on YT before. I've wis'd Mr. @Modulus_Amps above, if you want to achieve the same speed as Alfred, you'll probably need to go with a sweeping technique just like his. 180 and alternate is good going, but you're not in time. If you're looking at playing as fast as Potter, you're definitely not going to be thinking about what the next note is, that's all muscle memory. It's more like what the next "sweep shape" is, these are pretty standard ones apart from the switch to string skipping at the end to get the D major sequenced like that. 

Of course, these sweep shapes can be practised with alternate picking for the different sound or just to work on technique, but you could probably find more comfortable ways of fingering the same notes that would make the picking easier. These shapes are designed to sweep as many notes as possible to facilitate faster playing.