Watch Geeks Needed

UnclePsychosis

Hi folks

Been thinking for a while about "upgrading" from my cheap watch. I want something I can wear daily, both casually and also at work under shirt sleeves. My current watch is quite a plain chronometer on a nato strap, and aesthetically I like it a lot. 

Being into science and engineering the idea of an automatic appeals greatly. Unfortunately, being a scientist, spendy watches are way outside my pay grade. Also out are massive watches - I have skinny wrists and also wear shirts to work. 

Obviously at the budget automatic level you've got seiko 5 models but on an aesthetic level none of them really appeal.

Doing a lot more research, i found things like the Orient Bambino which seemingly represents great VFM but again the aesthetic doesn't wow me. They're nice, but not exciting. 

Things I do like are "bauhaus" style watches, but there really aren't a lot of options in automatic movements at prices that are realistic (ideally, less than £200 but I could go slightly higher I guess). There's a Rodina copy of a Nomos that I like a lot, but I don't know that i could cope with "direct, cheap, copy" even if it was an auto. 

So, two questions:

1. Any bauhaus style automatic watches at budget prices out there? 

2. If I didn't get an automatic, there are way more options. How much is "too much" to spend on a non-auto watch? Obviously this is a personal decision but your thoughts welcome. 

ThePrettyDamned

I have one of these, and love it.

https://www.watchshop.com/mens-citizen-eco-drive-watch-bm8240-11a-p99952857.html

Watch snobs will likely hate it, but it keeps good time, is slim, and looks every bit as nice as most £1000+ watches of a similar design. 

Flaws: the glass scratches easily. Expensive watches are better for this. 

Date is a bit fiddly - they always are. 

RaymondLin

Watches, automatic, essentially comes down to 2 kinds.

You have the Swiss movements and Japanese, the others....personally speaking I would dismiss if you want something that is time tested...no pun intended.

SWATCH, they own most of the patent and watch movements on the market, they own brands like Hamilton, and you can find their movements in a lot of luxury brands like RADO and Omega.  But they also sell a limited quantity to brands that are outside their group.   People like Christopher Ward.

What are looking for then is a brand that has an ETA movement, with Sapphire Glass.  Those 2 should mean there is a quality in terms of time keeping and also the sapphire glass is very tough.  Mine has ZERO scratches after 5+ years.

I did all the research before I bought mine, read all the history, different Swiss makers and their own in house movements etc etc.

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/limited-edition.html?___from_store=de is where i got mine.  ETA movements, just then in their own brand.  

I got the Ocean 1, it was about £330.

I took these photos when i first got it.

fields5069

I did similar research and ended up with a Zenith, which has their 36k beats per hour "El Primero" movement. I bought from a guy based in Switzerland who was happy to take day trips into Germany to post watches.

RaymondLin

The other end of the scale is Japanese movements.  Seiko is probably the best in this, Seiko 5 range is very hard to beat for the money.

When i wanted plain watch i found this on Kickstarter.  I wanted the IWC clean look with a blue dial.



The back is also Sapphire Glass.

Handsome_Chris

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about automatic watches.  I'm quite fond of my Omega; however, I like my quartz watches just as much.  I believe that a lot of the business about automatic watches is vanity as quartz watches tend to be more accurate.

RaymondLin

Handsome_Chris said:

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about automatic watches.  I'm quite fond of my Omega; however, I like my quartz watches just as much.  I believe that a lot of the business about automatic watches is vanity as quartz watches tend to be more accurate.

Some people say it is engineering.  Personally....if the intention is to build something the most accurate then you can't beat Quartz.  That is engineering too.

  If you want the smooth movement then Seiko's spring drive is hands down the best.  But  I think in reality what it comes down to is due to the branding from the Swiss makers.  When Quartz first came to market, it WAS expensive, it was thousands of pounds but like all tech, it came down in price and when Casio did their cheap watches in the 80’s, it took over the watch market so much that the Swiss makers had to shift harder into the luxury sector.  Watches used to be utilitarian, it was just a tool.  But eventually, it became a symbol of luxury, status symbol.  Which is now what most if not all mechanical watches brands are.  

stickyfiddle

Handsome_Chris said:

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about automatic watches.  I'm quite fond of my Omega; however, I like my quartz watches just as much.  I believe that a lot of the business about automatic watches is vanity as quartz watches tend to be more accurate.

It’s not about accuracy imo, it’s about the somewhat-intangible “thingness” of a tiny intricate mechanism that keeps virtually perfect time in all conditions. 

RaymondLin

There is a lot of snobbery in watches.

Think

Swiss = Gibson
Seiko = PRS

Or

Mechanical = Gibson
Quartz = PRS

No matter how good PRS builds a their guitars, people still mention Gibson.  Words about feel, the headstock (the brand), the heritage and all that gets talked about. 

Handsome_Chris

@RaymondLin ,did you see this limited edition Timex Q Time that was released in may?

 
It sold out very rapidly.   

stickyfiddle

+1 for what Raymond said. At that budget Seiko and Orient would be good options,  but I’d ideally go a little higher and get into Steinhart and Hamilton if possible.

But also be aware any half-decent auto can be a gateway - they don’t take up much room so it’s easy to have several... I started with a Seiko 5, which led to a Hamilton Khaki, and then IWC and Omega...

fields5069

RaymondLin said:

There is a lot of snobbery in watches.

Think

Swiss = Gibson
Seiko = PRS

Or

Mechanical = Gibson
Quartz = PRS

No matter how good PRS builds a their guitars, people still mention Gibson.  Words about feel, the headstock (the brand), the heritage and all that gets talked about. 

Well I reckon Mechanical is still PRS, and still built for looks. I don't see the point of classic cars, or looking at combustion engines, millions do though.

RaymondLin

Handsome_Chris said:

@RaymondLin ,did you see this limited edition Timex Q Time that was released in may?

 
It sold out very rapidly.   

To be honest I have purposely stayed away from reading more into it, it is a massive rabbit hole, one that is more expensive than Guitars.  I can seriously see myself inadvertently end up getting a Rolex just because...brand, Heritage and all that crap, because that's the kind of personality that I am...best stop as i am barely through the door with one hand on the frame.  I even thought about getting an Apple Watch a few months ago, but i still can't bring myself having to charge another thing every day and having to replace it every couple of years because it is now out of date in terms of tech or the battery now last 3 hours.

Watches...actually CAN make money, especially the higher end of the market, limited Rolex can double in price in 10 years.  Partly because Rolex continually up their retail price for new, so the 2nd hard market moves along with it.  

I am happy with my Steinhart though, £330....that is less than a service cost of a Rolex.  If i am getting it for investments...who am I kidding, i'd be better off putting it in an Index Fund.

stickyfiddle

I would say Gibson is Rolex - a little overpriced and often doing special editions in stupid colours that surely only rich muppets would buy. Old ones from the late 50’s/early 60’s go for more money than anything else around. Almost fell apart in the 70’s but now has tonnes of history and romance. 

Omega would be Fender - there from pretty much the beginning, usually cheaper than Rolex for similar models, often doing classic stuff with more modern internals, but reissues of the classic stuff is still the best (Speedmaster Pro = CS Strat)

PRS is Seiko - younger, more keen to be innovative while always keeping an eye on tradition, and capable of spectacular things executed perfectly (see Grand Seiko)

RaymondLin

stickyfiddle said:

I would say Gibson is Rolex - a little overpriced and often doing special editions in stupid colours that surely only rich muppets would buy. Old ones from the late 50’s/early 60’s go for more money than anything else around. Almost fell apart in the 70’s but now has tonnes of history and romance. 

Omega would be Fender - there from pretty much the beginning, usually cheaper than Rolex for similar models, often doing classic stuff with more modern internals, but reissues of the classic stuff is still the best (Speedmaster Pro = CS Strat)

PRS is Seiko - younger, more keen to be innovative while always keeping an eye on tradition, and capable of spectacular things executed perfectly (see Grand Seiko)

That's pretty accurate.  Of course there are others like jaeger lecoultre and patek philippe.  VERY boutique with a price tag to match.  Lots of history, and  between them and Rolex are the big 3 in Swiss watch makers.

stickyfiddle

RaymondLin said:

stickyfiddle said:

I would say Gibson is Rolex - a little overpriced and often doing special editions in stupid colours that surely only rich muppets would buy. Old ones from the late 50’s/early 60’s go for more money than anything else around. Almost fell apart in the 70’s but now has tonnes of history and romance. 

Omega would be Fender - there from pretty much the beginning, usually cheaper than Rolex for similar models, often doing classic stuff with more modern internals, but reissues of the classic stuff is still the best (Speedmaster Pro = CS Strat)

PRS is Seiko - younger, more keen to be innovative while always keeping an eye on tradition, and capable of spectacular things executed perfectly (see Grand Seiko)

That's pretty accurate.  Of course there are others like jaeger lecoultre and patek philippe.  VERY boutique with a price tag to match.  Lots of history, and  between them and Rolex are the big 3 in Swiss watch makers.

Yep. I guess those guys are equivalent to D’angelico, D’acquisto, Monteleone etc - doing unimaginable relatively old-fashioned things at the very top of the market and no one outside the nerds has heard of them

There’s a couple of Pateks I adore but I’d probably rather have a new car (or 2!)

RaymondLin

stickyfiddle said:

RaymondLin said:

stickyfiddle said:

I would say Gibson is Rolex - a little overpriced and often doing special editions in stupid colours that surely only rich muppets would buy. Old ones from the late 50’s/early 60’s go for more money than anything else around. Almost fell apart in the 70’s but now has tonnes of history and romance. 

Omega would be Fender - there from pretty much the beginning, usually cheaper than Rolex for similar models, often doing classic stuff with more modern internals, but reissues of the classic stuff is still the best (Speedmaster Pro = CS Strat)

PRS is Seiko - younger, more keen to be innovative while always keeping an eye on tradition, and capable of spectacular things executed perfectly (see Grand Seiko)

That's pretty accurate.  Of course there are others like jaeger lecoultre and patek philippe.  VERY boutique with a price tag to match.  Lots of history, and  between them and Rolex are the big 3 in Swiss watch makers.

Yep. I guess those guys are equivalent to D’angelico, D’acquisto, Monteleone etc - doing unimaginable relatively old-fashioned things at the very top of the market and no one outside the nerds has heard of them

There’s a couple of Pateks I adore but I’d probably rather have a new car (or 2!)

The truth is that 99.9999999% of the population don't care.

Your Rolex can go to 200m deep?  

That is merely dinner party talk, it's not even real 200m anyway, it's measured differently.  The world record for free diving is like 100m, you would be dead in 200m

Having a nice watch in the end of the day is having a nice guitar, on the stage most of the audience don't care what brand you play.   It all sounds like guitar to them.  Most people think my Steinhart is a Rolex.   Buy the watch that you like the watch face of when you look at it, buy the watch that you like the feel of on the wrist.  Don't buy it for dinner party talk.

stickyfiddle

RaymondLin said:

stickyfiddle said:

RaymondLin said:

stickyfiddle said:

I would say Gibson is Rolex - a little overpriced and often doing special editions in stupid colours that surely only rich muppets would buy. Old ones from the late 50’s/early 60’s go for more money than anything else around. Almost fell apart in the 70’s but now has tonnes of history and romance. 

Omega would be Fender - there from pretty much the beginning, usually cheaper than Rolex for similar models, often doing classic stuff with more modern internals, but reissues of the classic stuff is still the best (Speedmaster Pro = CS Strat)

PRS is Seiko - younger, more keen to be innovative while always keeping an eye on tradition, and capable of spectacular things executed perfectly (see Grand Seiko)

That's pretty accurate.  Of course there are others like jaeger lecoultre and patek philippe.  VERY boutique with a price tag to match.  Lots of history, and  between them and Rolex are the big 3 in Swiss watch makers.

Yep. I guess those guys are equivalent to D’angelico, D’acquisto, Monteleone etc - doing unimaginable relatively old-fashioned things at the very top of the market and no one outside the nerds has heard of them

There’s a couple of Pateks I adore but I’d probably rather have a new car (or 2!)

The truth is that 99.9999999% of the population don't care.

Your Rolex can go to 200m deep?  

That is merely dinner party talk, it's not even real 200m anyway, it's measured differently.  The world record for free diving is like 100m, you would be dead in 200m

Having a nice watch in the end of the day is having a nice guitar, on the stage most of the audience don't care what brand you play.   It all sounds like guitar to them.  Most people think my Steinhart is a Rolex.   Buy the watch that you like the watch face of when you look at it, buy the watch that you like the feel of on the wrist.  Don't buy it for dinner party talk.

Massive wis. I've had people mistake my 120-quid Seiko 5 for a Submariner. That's always a fun conversation - I always thank them but explain it's just a cheapie. 

I like watches a lot and am lucky enough to be able to afford a couple of nice ones, but I always buy for myself, not for what others will think. But I do try and tie any purchase to a life event or milestone - promotions, use of some inheritance to remember a loved one, etc. 

barnstorm

So many watches these days are stupidly large, and given the 'skinny wrists' bit of your post, the easiest way to narrow down your options will be to determine the maximum size (lug-to-lug and height as well as diameter) you're comfortable wearing. There just aren't many interesting and reasonably priced options once you get below 40mm, and, as is my preference, down into the mid-30s.

Lots of Bauhaus-style watches have long lugs, which I'm not keen on from an aesthetic point of view, and they can be uncomfortable, too, depending on how they're shaped and the knobbliness of your wrist. One that I do like is the Max Bill Handaufzug but it's about twice your budget and, as the name suggests, hand-wound.

(It's extremely easy not to buy a watch, in my experience, because 99% have some feature that bothers me!)

You might find something you like that is in budget from sternglas.com or braun-clocks.com/watches

zepp76

I have a Graf Zeppelin Bauhaus and a Junkers watch, both keep excellent time and are sensibly priced. They are not automatic but they do them at extra cost, there are some great designs. I also have a Traser P6500 but that stopped working after two years of use, a new battery didn't do the job which is a shame as it's a great everyday watch. Check out the Graf Zeppelin range of watches, there are some seriously nice looking specimens! My dream watch would be a Longines, lovely watches!

RaymondLin

zepp76 said:

I have a Graf Zeppelin Bauhaus and a Junkers watch, both keep excellent time and are sensibly priced. They are not automatic but they do them at extra cost, there are some great designs. I also have a Traser P6500 but that stopped working after two years of use, a new battery didn't do the job which is a shame as it's a great everyday watch. Check out the Graf Zeppelin range of watches, there are some seriously nice looking specimens! My dream watch would be a Longines, lovely watches!

You cannot beat this for value.  (need to check if its fake!)

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/longines/hydroconquest--id12003721.htm ;