Pickup Lost Lowend

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thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
I just re-wired my Strat after using it to try out a HH combo for a while.

The middle pickup now has almost no low end. It sounds as if there is a high pass filter on it at all times.

I tried de-soldering it all and re-wiring it, I tried removing the tone pot, simplifying the wiring as much as possible. Even tried swapping the hot and ground but every time it has no low end.

Anyone ever came across this before?

It seems so strange, makes me think the pickup must have been damaged.

Can anyone confirm this or offer a solution?

Any help is appreciated, even if it's the bad news of the pickup being damaged.

Cheers.
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Comments

  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    I would begin by inspecting the selector switch contacts and "wiper" blades.

    It is difficult to comment on possible problems with the pickup itself without first knowing the make and model of the pickup.

    If, for instance, your pickup has stacked coils for noise-cancellation and four-conductor + shield output cable, connecting the four conductors in the wrong order would create phase and/or overall output strength issues. 

    It would also help to see photographs of the offending pickup and your control wiring.
    Be seeing you.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    It's a Fender CS Fat 50s so just the hot and ground wires.

    I'll try going direct to the output and see if that solves it, will be back with some photos shortly.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    Cold solder joint at the ground end eyelet. I've seen it so many times, on US Fender pickups especially, I've lost count.

    Try resoldering it - it's not likely to be the hot end because that tends to produce silence.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    ICBM said:
    Cold solder joint at the ground end eyelet. I've seen it so many times, on US Fender pickups especially, I've lost count.

    Try resoldering it - it's not likely to be the hot end because that tends to produce silence.
    Should have mentioned these are pickups that have worked fine for years, then they were stored in a cupboard for about a month.

    Is it still possible it's a cold solder joint on the pickup if it worked fine for years?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    thegummy said:

    Should have mentioned these are pickups that have worked fine for years, then they were stored in a cupboard for about a month.

    Is it still possible it's a cold solder joint on the pickup if it worked fine for years?
    Yes. It will work fine until a little corrosion gets in or the wire gets disturbed slightly.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    I tried connecting it straight to the output jack and the same problem exists.

    Also tried reheating the hot and ground connections coming out of the pickup but didn't fix it.

    Is it possible that a pickup can be damaged in a way that it will still work but have no low end?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    thegummy said:

    Is it possible that a pickup can be damaged in a way that it will still work but have no low end?
    Yes, if the coil is broken at the ground end - the same basic problem, but further into the coil.

    Depending on the winding direction it might be fixable by unwinding the last couple of turns, or not without rewinding the whole pickup. If it’s at the inner end it will be caused either by corrosion between the magnets and the wire, or one of the magnets being moved.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9982
    tFB Trader
    ICBM said:
    thegummy said:

    Is it possible that a pickup can be damaged in a way that it will still work but have no low end?
    Yes, if the coil is broken at the ground end - the same basic problem, but further into the coil.

    Depending on the winding direction it might be fixable by unwinding the last couple of turns, or not without rewinding the whole pickup. If it’s at the inner end it will be caused either by corrosion between the magnets and the wire, or one of the magnets being moved.
    Exactly what he says ... you have what is called a zombie pickup ... dead but it doesn't know it. 
     
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    RIP that pickup :(
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    thegummy said:
    RIP that pickup :(
    You can get it fixed.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9982
    tFB Trader
    ICBM said:
    thegummy said:
    RIP that pickup :(
    You can get it fixed.
    As @ICBM says ... it depends which end of the coil wire is damaged ... if it's the 'finish' end then repair is easy and cheap. If it's the start end then you will need a rewind. Rewinds start about £30.00 plus postage ... this of course has to be balanced with what a working second hand pickup would set you back.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    Oh nice one, didn't think it would be fixable.

    When I thought that I thought about replacements and kind of want to get new ones now but will need to think about it properly.

    Quick question @OilCityPickups - the Diamond Geezer in the bridge goes very well with the Fat 50s in the neck and middle; if I was to replace the neck and middle with lower output pickups, would there be a problematic mis match?
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9982
    tFB Trader
    thegummy said:
    Oh nice one, didn't think it would be fixable.

    When I thought that I thought about replacements and kind of want to get new ones now but will need to think about it properly.

    Quick question @OilCityPickups - the Diamond Geezer in the bridge goes very well with the Fat 50s in the neck and middle; if I was to replace the neck and middle with lower output pickups, would there be a problematic mis match?
    Shouldn't be ... there's only so low you can go with Strats lol.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • MayneheadMaynehead Frets: 1782
    I did this to a Rockfield Mafia bridge pickup I had once... I was cleaning the guitar when I noticed a stray loop of thread coming off the black tape around the coils, so I pulled it out. Only then did I realise to my horror that it wasn’t a piece of thread, it was actually a piece of the coil!

    I was pretty gutted because those pickups are no longer made, and I was fully expecting to have killed it. But to my surprise when I plugged it in, it still made a sound, although it didn’t sound quite right... no low end.

    For a while I thought the lack of low end would make a pretty tight metal pickup, but eventually I found another one and replaced it.
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9982
    edited August 2019 tFB Trader
    Maynehead said:
    I did this to a Rockfield Mafia bridge pickup I had once... I was cleaning the guitar when I noticed a stray loop of thread coming off the black tape around the coils, so I pulled it out. Only then did I realise to my horror that it wasn’t a piece of thread, it was actually a piece of the coil!

    I was pretty gutted because those pickups are no longer made, and I was fully expecting to have killed it. But to my surprise when I plugged it in, it still made a sound, although it didn’t sound quite right... no low end.

    For a while I thought the lack of low end would make a pretty tight metal pickup, but eventually I found another one and replaced it.
    If a fair bit of wire came out chances are that it was the finishing coil ... so a few quid would have had it fixed as good as new. Remember ... if a pickup is valuable to you it can almost always be repaired.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • MayneheadMaynehead Frets: 1782
    Maynehead said:
    I did this to a Rockfield Mafia bridge pickup I had once... I was cleaning the guitar when I noticed a stray loop of thread coming off the black tape around the coils, so I pulled it out. Only then did I realise to my horror that it wasn’t a piece of thread, it was actually a piece of the coil!

    I was pretty gutted because those pickups are no longer made, and I was fully expecting to have killed it. But to my surprise when I plugged it in, it still made a sound, although it didn’t sound quite right... no low end.

    For a while I thought the lack of low end would make a pretty tight metal pickup, but eventually I found another one and replaced it.
    If a fair bit of wire came out chances are that it was the finishing coil ... so a few quid would have had it fixed as good as new. Remember ... if a pickup is valuable to you it can almost always be repaired.
    I did try to fix it on my own by rejoining the broken ends, but it was a near impossible task as the wires were so thin and my cheap 40w soldering iron was not the right tool for the job. The wires just refused to take the solder no matter what I did, and burnt out almost immediately.
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9982
    tFB Trader
    Maynehead said:
    Maynehead said:
    I did this to a Rockfield Mafia bridge pickup I had once... I was cleaning the guitar when I noticed a stray loop of thread coming off the black tape around the coils, so I pulled it out. Only then did I realise to my horror that it wasn’t a piece of thread, it was actually a piece of the coil!

    I was pretty gutted because those pickups are no longer made, and I was fully expecting to have killed it. But to my surprise when I plugged it in, it still made a sound, although it didn’t sound quite right... no low end.

    For a while I thought the lack of low end would make a pretty tight metal pickup, but eventually I found another one and replaced it.
    If a fair bit of wire came out chances are that it was the finishing coil ... so a few quid would have had it fixed as good as new. Remember ... if a pickup is valuable to you it can almost always be repaired.
    I did try to fix it on my own by rejoining the broken ends, but it was a near impossible task as the wires were so thin and my cheap 40w soldering iron was not the right tool for the job. The wires just refused to take the solder no matter what I did, and burnt out almost immediately.
    Splicing coil single coil start wires is a specialist job, it can be done if there is enough wire left ... you can't however solder fine coil wire to fine coil wire ... you need to wrap the ends to be joined round a thicker piece of wire and use a very hot needle point soldering iron. This is real microsurgery stuff requiring magnifying lenses to see what you're doing, tweezers and staying off the sherbets the night before. The stub of wire you wind around is around 3/16 of an inch long to give you some idea of the task. 
    All this and it doesn't always work ... but it's worth a try for a rare pickup.   
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    OilCityPickups said:
    Splicing coil single coil start wires is a specialist job, it can be done if there is enough wire left ... you can't however solder fine coil wire to fine coil wire ... you need to wrap the ends to be joined round a thicker piece of wire and use a very hot needle point soldering iron. This is real microsurgery stuff requiring magnifying lenses to see what you're doing, tweezers and staying off the sherbets the night before. The stub of wire you wind around is around 3/16 of an inch long to give you some idea of the task. 
    All this and it doesn't always work ... but it's worth a try for a rare pickup.   
    Been there. Tried that. Unbelievably frustrating ... and not just because my attempt came apart the day after! 

    The sixty four thousand Dollar question is, should one shave the insulation off the ends of the copper wire? ;)
    Be seeing you.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    I use one strand from the shield of a piece of shielded cable for this sort of thing - it’s only a bit thicker than the pickup wire but is usually untreated copper, so it takes solder easily. I take the coating off the coil wire with a scalpel blade rubbed against my finger with the wire in between. You don’t have to go all the way round, as long as you can see bright copper it will take.

    Even so my success rate isn’t 100% either...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • MayneheadMaynehead Frets: 1782
    edited August 2019
    At least I feel better now knowing that my makeshift attempt was destined to fail. The pickup was not worth enough to take to a professional, and I did luckily manage to source another so all is well.

    Big lesson learnt though - never go pulling stuff off pickups, however benign it may appear.
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