Silent recording with amp and pedalboard, etc.

digitalkettle

Here's my setup when I gig:
guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as an attenuator) > PS-2 send > delay pedal, etc > PS-2 return > PS-2 speaker output > Suhr ACE cab emulator (DI to PA) > cab

So it's a kind of '4 cable method' hookup for the pedalboard. The PS-2 provides loop capabilities after the amp so the amp can get as gainy as you like and you still have clean ambient effects.

I was hoping to use the same setup for silent recording...just without the cab; the PS-2 will act as the speaker load and I can feed the signal from the ACE into my DAW. I can do this just fine apart from including the effects that are in the PS-2 effects loop. The PS-2 loop is only present on the speaker output, not the line out. For silent recording, the setup changes slightly:
guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Suhr ACE cab emulator (DI to DAW) > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as a load)

In silent mode, the PS-2 loop send is operational...this has a switchable level but has to be pedal friendly...there is an alternative input on the ACE for line level so the pedal friendly signal is too low.

Has anyone found a way around this? Have I missed something?

susbemol

Have you considered just going guitar -> amp - > fryette -> audio interface? You then have many more cab emulation options (IRs, etc) and any other effect of your choice in the DAW. That's how I do it.

If you really want to use your non-gain pedals, then you could put them in your amp's FX loop (if it has one) or just into the input, like in the old days.

Branshen

Why can't you use the exact same setup but send the di signal from your Suhr to DAW instead of PA? 

digitalkettle

susbemol said:

Have you considered just going guitar -> amp - > fryette -> audio interface? You then have many more cab emulation options (IRs, etc) and any other effect of your choice in the DAW. That's how I do it.

If you really want to use your non-gain pedals, then you could put them in your amp's FX loop (if it has one) or just into the input, like in the old days.

Yep, the simple route works well...plenty of scope for effects in the DAW but sometimes it’s nice to:
- commit the effected sound and *not* have the option to tweak later on
- capture the nuance (and real-time control) of a pedal
- have one set of sounds that i know well

I have few amps: no loop, crap loop, and very gainy loop (delay levels get hyped, etc). I did try the latter and it was okay at low mix levels.

digitalkettle

Branshen said:

Why can't you use the exact same setup but send the di signal from your Suhr to DAW instead of PA? 

In the live setup, the Suhr ACE comes after the PS-2’s speaker output...I’m pretty sure a load is required at this point...so a speaker or *another* loadbox (I think)?

Branshen

digitalkettle said:

Branshen said:

Why can't you use the exact same setup but send the di signal from your Suhr to DAW instead of PA? 

In the live setup, the Suhr ACE comes after the PS-2’s speaker output...I’m pretty sure a load is required at this point...so a speaker or *another* loadbox (I think)?

reading up on your fryette, it works as a loadbox, and I don't see why you would need another one downstream, as long as you use line level after this and don't take a speaker level output out from the fryette.

From the PS-2 manual (http://www.fryette.com/content/Power_Station2_Manual_5a_FINAL_3-2018.pdf):

Finally, your Power Station functions as a versatile silent reactive load for direct recording by simply connecting the Balanced or Unbalanced Line out to your recording interface.

Looking at your chain, Would this work?
guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as an attenuator AND LOAD BOX) > PS-2 send > delay pedal, etc > PS-2 return > PS-2 LINE output > LINE IN ON Suhr ACE cab emulator (DI to Audio Interface) > Audio Interface

digitalkettle

Thanks for taking the time to read-up...unfortunately, the effects loop is not present on the Line Out (the manual could be clearer on this).

Branshen

digitalkettle said:

Thanks for taking the time to read-up...unfortunately, the effects loop is not present on the Line Out (the manual could be clearer on this).

Hmm. I'm assuming that your amp doesn't have an effects loop, if not I'm sure you'll use that instead of the PS-2 loop in this case. 

What are your effects? Can they be run at line level? If so, you can go from PS-2 -> Effects -> Ace.

digitalkettle

It does have a loop but it’s a mini-plexi (SV20H) so the power amp (and thus the loop) is really gainy.

Loop effects are currently Diamond MLNJr, Strymon El Cap, and RYRA Klone...not sure about line level there.

Branshen

digitalkettle said:

It does have a loop but it’s a mini-plexi (SV20H) so the power amp (and thus the loop) is really gainy.

Loop effects are currently Diamond MLNJr, Strymon El Cap, and RYRA Klone...not sure about line level there.

The klone and MLNJr are not line level. so that won't work..

Edited earlier reply: Brain fart. DI Box wont convert an instrument level to line level. Without having to buy more gear, this might work best for you?

guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as an attenuator AND LOAD BOX) > PS-2 send > delay pedal, etc > Audio Interface > IR Cab emulator..

digitalkettle

Branshen said:

guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as an attenuator AND LOAD BOX) > PS-2 send > delay pedal, etc > Audio Interface > IR Cab emulator..

Yep...most realistic approach so far (similar to @susbemol 's suggestion).

Probably need to accept that a live rig is not necessarily a recording rig.

Admission: I do have an AxeFX II...but it's nice to use real amp/pedals sometimes!

Branshen

digitalkettle said:

Branshen said:

guitar > gain pedals > amp head > Fryette PS-2 power station (acting as an attenuator AND LOAD BOX) > PS-2 send > delay pedal, etc > Audio Interface > IR Cab emulator..

Yep...most realistic approach so far (similar to @susbemol 's suggestion).

Probably need to accept that a live rig is not necessarily a recording rig.

Admission: I do have an AxeFX II...but it's nice to use real amp/pedals sometimes!

In that case, you should use your AxeFX2 for cabinet emulation (to avoid latency of using VSTs), and you get to play with your real amp and pedals. haha!

digitalkettle

Thanks for the ideas