Are modellers as good as amps?

Roland

Which is better, Testarossa, Transit, or Tesla? Each has its place. 

Handsome_Chris

soma1975 said:

All you need to know is Mark Knopfler switched to Kemper and now Mark Knopfler is retiring. 

So what you're saying is that he should have got an Axe-FX?  Good point.

NelsonP

soma1975 said:

All you need to know is Mark Knopfler switched to Kemper and now Mark Knopfler is retiring. 

Presumably so he actually has the time to profile his favorite amps on all of his preferred settings ;-)

Sassafras

No and they never will be.
Why?
Because they're not amps.

Freebird

dazzajl said:

Sassafras said:

No and they never will be.
Why?
Because they're not amps.

Want to walk me through that statement because I definitely see something like Mustang or THR as an amp

Anything that amplifies the sound of an electric guitar is an "amplifier", and any tonal colouration imparted on the signal is a byproduct of the amplification process.

dazzajl

Sassafras said:

No and they never will be.
Why?
Because they're not amps.

Want to walk me through that statement because I definitely see something like Mustang or THR as an amp

Sassafras

dazzajl said:

Sassafras said:

No and they never will be.
Why?
Because they're not amps.

Want to walk me through that statement because I definitely see something like Mustang or THR as an amp

The OP has separated modellers from amps therefore it's an existential question based on the philosophy of Jean Paul Sartres and Schrodinger's cat.

dazzajl

Sassafras said:

dazzajl said:

Sassafras said:

No and they never will be.
Why?
Because they're not amps.

Want to walk me through that statement because I definitely see something like Mustang or THR as an amp

The OP has separated modellers from amps therefore it's an existential question based on the philosophy of Jean Paul Sartres and Schrodinger's cat.

Gotcha, all clear now

paulmapp8306

Not an easy question.

Ive been using Modellers (AFX) for 11 years now, its regularly pu up against some good amps (Mr Z Maz 18, and an EGZ) and holds its own.

BUT - I play it through a valve power section (Fryette Power Station) and cab (after years of using Matrix amps).  Ive tried FRFR though various top end solutions and it never does it for me from a players POV.  I do use FRFR - obviously when recording and its far more flexible and straight forwards than a valve amp.  I also send a feed at bigger venues to FOH which is better for the desk and the audience than a valve amp BUT I still use the Power amp/cab as on stage monitoring for ME. 

I actually had a valve amp side by side in the early days -0 and for about 5 years in the middle as an alternative, but both got sold as they just wernt used.

One thing I never liked about real amps, is I always struggled to get the top I had in my head.  There was always an annoying freq there, or missing, or over saturating, or too dry etc etc etc.  This is where the AFX (in particular) made its mark.  The L6 stuff isnt as flexible and the Kemper just gave me copies of the same annoying stuff.  BUT thats just me.

What I have always said - even now.  If your not recording, and you play with one or two tones only, and you find a valve amp that does them just how you like them - then that amp is still better than any modeller.  If you DO record, or if you need more tonal options, or keep changing amps and cant settle on one.  - then Modellers are the way to go.  It might mean playing with how you hear them though.  Dont rule out FRFR, but dont rely on it either.  An amp and cab might work better for you. 

tabano

to my ears and hands Modellers don”t feel like amps, 
they can sound similar but do not respond to dynamics, and projection like a valve amp, they are not so responsive,
they are practical for the bedroom, for certain recording scenarios and to plug straight to the PA but they are not the same fun as the real amp,
all imho,

Fiftyshadesofjay

It’s all in how you’re using it, there’s absolutely no definitive answer. 

For me, the Kemper is much better for a wedding band when you have to deal with awful acoustics and sound limiters.

My 100 Watt Head and cab are much better if I’m monitoring purely from the amp and playing hardcore/Black Metal and want to blow people’s heads off.

Also it’s a fools errand to compare an actual guitar cab to a monitor, of course you’ll get a different feel, they’re totally different things. 

dazzajl

Particularly enjoying the replies that essentially say that a valve amp is always better than a modelled one. UNLESS, you’re playing at home, in a band or recording. 

A completely nonsensical statement that I fully agree with. Valve amps can be right moody buggers that don’t always want to produce the same sound today that they did yesterday. How many times have we have plugged a certain guitar in to a good ol’ amp and achieved tone heaven. Gone back to the same pair the next day and found ‘MEH’. 

TTBZ

dazzajl said:

A completely nonsensical statement that I fully agree with. Valve amps can be right moody buggers that don’t always want to produce the same sound today that they did yesterday. How many times have we have plugged a certain guitar in to a good ol’ amp and achieved tone heaven. Gone back to the same pair the next day and found ‘MEH’. 

I have that with modelling as well. I think it’s our ears, not the tech.

dazzajl

TTBZ said:

dazzajl said:

A completely nonsensical statement that I fully agree with. Valve amps can be right moody buggers that don’t always want to produce the same sound today that they did yesterday. How many times have we have plugged a certain guitar in to a good ol’ amp and achieved tone heaven. Gone back to the same pair the next day and found ‘MEH’. 

I have that with modelling as well. I think it’s our ears, not the tech.

You mean I’m the moody bugger? This has come as quite a shock  

JezWynd

I've never played a modeller so I'll state with absolute confidence that valves are best.

thecolourbox

There are some truly terrible valve amps in fairness

p90fool

Real band, real player, real dynamics = real amp.

"Bedroom" player, advertising jingle, teenage "metal" = modeller.

C'mon guys, it's really not a difficult question. 

Freebird

p90fool said:

Real band, real player, real dynamics = real amp.

"Bedroom" player, advertising jingle, teenage "metal" = modeller.

C'mon guys, it's really not a difficult question. 

Budget for £200-£500 a day if you want to record a real amp properly 

Fez

dazzajl said:

Particularly enjoying the replies that essentially say that a valve amp is always better than a modelled one. UNLESS, you’re playing at home, in a band or recording. 

A completely nonsensical statement that I fully agree with. Valve amps can be right moody buggers that don’t always want to produce the same sound today that they did yesterday. How many times have we have plugged a certain guitar in to a good ol’ amp and achieved tone heaven. Gone back to the same pair the next day and found ‘MEH’. 

This can also be caused by how you (one) feels on a given day compared to the next day.

Pablocrackers

Handsome_Chris said:

Nah. Modellers are better than amps.  If they're good enough for  Ron Thal (Line 6 Helix LT) and Nita Strauss (Boss GT-1000) then I'm sure it  for will do for the majority of the tFB population.

Im pretty sure this is more the convenience of a modeller when your touring the world sacrificing 10-20% feel and tone vs the expense in hauling & servicing the amps to be honest i bet they use real amps in the studio