Any wiring gurus about??

Extremely frustrating experience,
Just been working on a dry build of a 2 pickup cabronita style.
Put it all together, strung up and all fitting together nicely, so I thought I would try a quick check of the simple looking wiring.
Basically, it has a pre made Les paul junior harness, Vol, Tone and output jack, all looking nicely put together with braided wire, and an unused 3 way toggle.
So I did a bit of research, and think I understood how the toggle would be incorporated. Pickups are single braided wire gold foils, so I was keen to see how they sounded.
First attempt, and I realised I didnt have a ground wire installed, so that went on the list of things to doe when I dis-assemble for finishing.
Plugged it in anyway--thought I would get something--but complete silence.
Double checked some wiring diagrams, and some showed no ground from switch, so I clipped that-still silent, but some crackling from the cap connections, between pre-wired vol and tone, thought it might be a dodgy cap.
Anyhoo, I was desperate to see how the pickups sounded, so I dis-assembled and at this point my solder from the pickup braids to the back of the vol pot broke loose, so I thought, AHA, that was the problem, and at the same time I suspected the output jack might be faulty-it was a tight fit, and I was getting nothing at all.
So I did some fettling to the vol and tone pot holes, and spliced in a new output jack, put in a different brand new cap, and double checked everything. I put in a ground wire which I temporarilly attached to one of the string ferrules, plugged it all in again and still silence, nothing crackles, or pops, everything looks good to me-so can anyone give me any ideas, ???
I checked the DC of the pickups, which looked ok, and I'm pretty sure I have everything in the right place, trying to solder inside a telecaster switch rout is a bitch, and if I had some new 250K pots I would start from scratch.
HELP.
cheers guys.
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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    First - STOP just changing stuff until you have identified the problem. It will make it harder to find the fault as well as being a waste of time, money and parts.

    Disconnect the hot wire from the jack to the volume pot at the pot end. Plug the guitar into the amp and touch the end of this wire. Usual buzz from amp? If no, the output jack is shorted. If yes, report back.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Thanks, I will try that, but it isn't easy to disconnect anything in a telecaster cavity-clip, yes, disconnect no.
    I will take it step by step, but I will have to dis-assemble first to get access, so maybe give me a few more steps first.
    I have had it all out twice today, and it has fried my patience.
    thanks anyway.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    andy_k said:

    I have had it all out twice today, and it has fried my patience.
    That’s exactly why you need to troubleshoot it logically and not just change everything before you know where the fault is :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    Is your cable to the amp good. Plug it into the amp and touch the jack tip. It should buzz if the cable is ok. 
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Thanks guys, I did try to approach this very logically and wanted to do a neat job. First attempt was done in situ, and wasn't 100% about the switch. Did a bit of research as it is a premade Junior harness, intended for 1 pickup -no switch, and looked to be well done. I might not be using it though--none of the knobs I have fit, and I think braided wire will not work if I shield the (small) cavity.
    My second attempt involved some woodwork, and I tried to make sure everything was well connected and had room, which was why I replaced the jack and cap, and was done outside the cavity.
    I think final assembly will be done with insulated wire and a shielded cavity anyway, so I will do some homework about testing stuff with a multimeter as I go, I get a bit OCD about wiring, and never seem to do it confidently.
    It takes a while to let a guitar build settle after being strung up, and I was keen to hear the gold foils in this build, never tried them before, so my impatience got the better of me.
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  • I can't really help much but ime the best thing to do when something like this happens is to walk away and do something else for a bit. When you come back calm, rested and fresh eyed you can spot problems a whole lot easier.  :)
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    I came into this project, to get away from some mixing stuff that was doing my head in.  Had all the parts lying there for a long time, so I did have a good day yesterday building, it all went together well. Pushed my luck with the wiring, so I will let it sit for a wee while. Sounds good acoustically, so I might have to do a test with a pickup direct to output first before doing the whole thing, dying to hear these pickups. It will all be coming apart in a few weeks for finishing anyway, I think I'll order some new pots in the mean time.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    small update, the guitar was sat in the corner, screaming to me-'you must hear me making some sort of electric sound',  so I decided to strip everything out, and just get some noise out.
    I dug around in some parts, and thought, what I am basically doing is a telecaster layout, which helped me visualise. One of the pickup leads is a bit too short to work outside the cavity-which would be so easy, and being a braided single conductor, makes making the ground to the back of the pot a pain.
    which is when I decided - i dont really use a tone knob anyway, so I decided it will be 2 vol, and 3 way toggle.
    At this point, I am not too sure how it will be wired, so I just connected the short pickup wire to the back of an old 500k pot, and used the first lug direct to my output jack, the ground from the output jack went to ground on the back of the pot, then I put all my gear away, and put the back cover back on, it will all get done properly when I get it dis-assembled, finished then re-assembled.
    when my room was tidy again, I plugged it in and did a quick check, sound came out, and it was glorious.
    I have never tried these pickups before-Mojo goldfoils, which came with the 'kit' I picked up on here from Dr Bob a long while back. and they measure about 6 for the neck and 8.5 for the bridge, I wired up the neck, and it seems to work ok, the pot is very noisy at off, which is to be expected-as I dont have a string ground fitted-that is the main job when I dis-assemble, but at full vol it sounds pretty much as I would expect-both woody and metallic at the same time, woody due to -the wood, but metallic from the direct mount and  telecaster type string thru, and probably new strings.
    I have found a diagram that shows 2 vols with a 3 position slider switch, but could do with some info as to how a 3 way toggle will work-think it is the Gotoh version I will be using.
    This will let me just get a blend of pickups at different volumes, and who needs artificial tone anyway?
    cheers
    andy k
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    If the volume pot is noisy at full off, have you wired it ‘backwards’ - also known as ‘independent’ - ie with the pickup connected to the centre terminal and the jack to the end one? You don’t need to do that if you also have a switch.

    Wiring the switch is easy - have a close look at it and you can see how it works. The two middle terminals should be connected together and to the jack, and the other two to the middle terminals of the pots if you’re having separate volumes.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Thanks, don't think so-but I'll have a look tomorrow, at next attempt, still no string ground fitted, I'll hook up a pot to the other pickup and try and get the switch working, not sure about a ground connection for the switch, and any idea how 500k pots would compare to 250k?, I think Gold foils are single coils, and the pots that came with were 250k, I have a few loose 500s laying around. thanks again.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I'd probably stick with 250s for those - they're bright, low-wound pickups.

    Even with no string ground, turning a normally-wired volume control down to zero should produce silence since the jack - connected to the rotor - is then directly connected to ground.

    There is a catch with the ground connection on guitar pots - sometimes when you bend the tab back to solder it to the casing, it stresses the rivet onto the trackboard and can produce a poor contact. You can fix it by squeezing the rivet with some narrow-nose pliers.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • andy_k said:
    it isn't easy to disconnect anything in a telecaster cavity
    Dumb but necessary question: Why are you trying to solder “in cavity”?

    There should be sufficient slack in your cable runs to allow the soldering to be performed outside the cavity. Connect everything THEN fit the controls and tighten up the hex nuts afterwards.
    Be seeing you.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    follow up, I had the pot wired backwards, so I took the time to wire up a set of 500k pots, with leads attached, and for clarification-it was the neck pickup lead that was causing me to have to do some soldering inside the rear routed cabronita style cavity, everything else was easy outside. I wired it up as 2 vols, to a 3 way switch and it works fine, except the 2 pots weren't a pair as such, one was an Alpha, and the other was unmarked, I used the Alphe for my bridge volume-as I thought that was the better pot, but it turned out to be poo.
    I'll probably do the finished job with a replacement, but it got me going, even got some recording done with it, I find a 'new' instrument very inspiring.
    thanks for all the help guys.
    cheers
    andy k
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    edited October 2019
    andy_k said:
    I had the pot wired backwards
    Most guitar circuit diagrams are neither properly schematic nor geometric. Instead, they are an exercise in altered perspectives.

    Components appear in drawings as you will view them whilst working on them. Thus, a Telecaster drawing will show the pickups as viewed from the front of the guitar but the controls as viewed from the underside of the metal control plate. 
    Be seeing you.
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