Setting up your live tones - balance between pickups

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VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
So - I have been playing live regularly for years and one thing that still eludes me a bit is how to set up your amp (or Helix in this case but same issue with my Victory) so that the the positions other than bridge pickup don't sound muffled.

Or how do you get that balance so if you set up so it sounds great on the neck pickup but is too bright on the bridge etc. I do ride the vol to control this and sometimes the tone (I have Thornbuckers on one guitar and TV Jones on the other).

Being in covers bands for years now I use a range of sounds and during a gig it sometimes feels like a blanket has been put over the speaker if I change from bridge to anywhere else. I have also rolled back on the gain more and more over the years for definition (usually I'm in dual guitar bands with me as lead guitarist).
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    This has literally been a lifelong quest for me! I spend ages changing pickups or modifying them for balance so that they both sound good at the same amp setting. This works fine playing original stuff partly because I'm running the power section of the amp harder, which smooths out the different EQ of the pickups, vintage style. 

    For my covers band, where I might need a jangly rhythm on the neck pickup and a fat lead for the bridge I've finally given in and use a different drive pedal for the bridge pickup, and a boost in front of both. 
    In my case, I'm using a Marshall Drivemaster set warm and fat for the bridge pickup and a TS-type for all other positions, which is cleaner or at any rate less grainy than the Drivemaster at similar gain levels. If I need more gain I can kick in the boost, whatever drive pedal or pickup I'm using. 

    All this is in conjunction with a treble pass cap on the guitar's volume pot, so I can clean up without mud for almost acoustic-like tones. 

    It sounds crazy having a different drive pedal for the bridge pickup, but it's totally instinctive to use and I can finally relax and play without any tonal compromises. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I assumed you meant the volumes... I've never found the tone balance to be a problem, ever - not even with Telecasters, which I know a lot of people find the neck pickup a bit muddy on.

    The only Victory amps I've played sounded like they had a blanket over them though, maybe that's part of the problem?

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    ICBM said:
    I assumed you meant the volumes... I've never found the tone balance to be a problem, ever - not even with Telecasters, which I know a lot of people find the neck pickup a bit muddy on.

    The only Victory amps I've played sounded like they had a blanket over them though, maybe that's part of the problem?
    They are quite dark :) No it's tone as opposed to vol - my pickup balance is fine - I think it's just a perception thing maybe?
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  • uncledickuncledick Frets: 403
    p90fool said:
    This has literally been a lifelong quest for me! I spend ages changing pickups or modifying them for balance so that they both sound good at the same amp setting. This works fine playing original stuff partly because I'm running the power section of the amp harder, which smooths out the different EQ of the pickups, vintage style. 

    For my covers band, where I might need a jangly rhythm on the neck pickup and a fat lead for the bridge I've finally given in and use a different drive pedal for the bridge pickup, and a boost in front of both. 
    In my case, I'm using a Marshall Drivemaster set warm and fat for the bridge pickup and a TS-type for all other positions, which is cleaner or at any rate less grainy than the Drivemaster at similar gain levels. If I need more gain I can kick in the boost, whatever drive pedal or pickup I'm using. 

    All this is in conjunction with a treble pass cap on the guitar's volume pot, so I can clean up without mud for almost acoustic-like tones. 

    It sounds crazy having a different drive pedal for the bridge pickup, but it's totally instinctive to use and I can finally relax and play without any tonal compromises. 
    I'm similar when I'm running through my Cornell.  I use a Blackstar HT Dual for centre and neck positions and when we suddenly need a bit of Greenday or Blink182 it's bridge pickup and my OCD.  Will often roll the tone back a bit on the bridge pickup for Beatles or similar when playing clean.  Although I haven't yet used it live, my Heritage H150 with SD59s has great tonal balance with the bridge still giving plenty of midrange as well as bite.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    I’ve never found it difficult with humbuckers:
    1. Adjust the height of each pickup for the best sound, which in my case means not too close to the strings.
    2. Adjust the two ends of each pickup to get the best balance across the strings.
    3. Then go back and adjust pickup heights relative to each other for the best balance of volumes.
    4. Rinse and repeat to fine tune.

    Now with single coils there’s a lot more to consider. That’s partly because there can be bigger tonal and volume difference between pickups, and also because there more higher frequencies to get right. This is particularly true of a covers band where you need quite a wide range of sounds. I can see why Brett Mason had a middle pickup fitted on a separate volume control so that he could bleed it into his other sounds. My steps:
    1. Choose the right pickups. This is expensive. The secondhand market is your friend. It’s also time consuming, not just changing pickups, but going around the height/balance loop.
    2. Choose the right pots, capacitors and treble bleeds. This is less expensive, but also time consuming.

    I know that I harp on about it, but my choice for a Telecaster in a covers band is a Strat type neck pickup, and a tapped neck pickup which give both fat and thin Tele sounds. Then use a 5-way switch for pickup combinations: bridge, tapped bridge, both in parallel, neck, both in series. Even with that I find myself riding the tone control because the amp is set so that the neck and the tapped bridge can deliver a bright sound when needed, and tamed when not.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • This is why the Seymour Duncan JB and 59 (or Jazz) work so well together. 
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    ICBM said:
    I assumed you meant the volumes... I've never found the tone balance to be a problem, ever - not even with Telecasters, which I know a lot of people find the neck pickup a bit muddy on.

    Maybe, but I can't switch from the neck pickup rhythm tone of Moloko's Sing it Back to something like a Black Keys number just by flicking a switch on the guitar - at least not if I want them both to sound great, and more importantly to not cut the audience's heads off. 

    My LP and my Tele are the best-balanced guitars I've ever owned if I'm switching between pickups within a particular style, but when you need a big fat bridge pickup tone and a scooped funk neck pickup tone you're going to have to tread on a footswitch or two, so you may as well set them up to be the best they can, with no compromises. 
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    I am intrigued that so many contributors to this thread seek a bright sound from the (usually mellower) neck/Rhythm position pickup and a fat sound from the (usually brighter sounding) bridge/Treble position. 


    Be seeing you.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I am intrigued that so many contributors to this thread seek a bright sound from the (usually mellower) neck/Rhythm position pickup and a fat sound from the (usually brighter sounding) bridge/Treble position.
    I do too - although not so much bright from the neck as cleaner and clearer. It’s usually achieved by having a hotter-wound bridge pickup, so the difference is that the bridge pickup is more midrangy rather than brighter. As already said, it’s why combinations like the Duncan ‘59 and JB work so well - that way the pickup selector becomes almost like an overdrive channel switch.

    On a guitar with separate controls you can do it by turning down the tone on the bridge pickup and the volume on the neck a bit as well.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited October 2019
    I've not had a problem with my various guitars. Maybe I've been lucky in choosing new stock guitars with well matched pickups. But I spend a very long time trying numerous guitars before I select one.

    This is why the Seymour Duncan JB and 59 (or Jazz) work so well together. 
    I replaced the pickups in my PRS S2 Custom 24. Not because they were unbalanced, but because I found them too focused and 'metal'. I find the Seymour Duncan JB and Jazz are well balanced and work well together in that guitar, and give it a gainy but more loose bluesy feel.

    It's not a competition.
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  • Balanced set of pickups plus a bit of compromise is a lot of it
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    I run the amp and od pedal bright and use the tone controls. So most of the time the tone is around 5-7 and can get brighter or duller on each pickup selection.

    A tone control on the bridge pickup of a stratocaster is your friend. 
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    I am intrigued that so many contributors to this thread seek a bright sound from the (usually mellower) neck/Rhythm position pickup and a fat sound from the (usually brighter sounding) bridge/Treble position. 
    It’s so the brightness and fatness there when you want them. Brightness I can reduce with the tone control, and fatness by tapping the pickup.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • dariusdarius Frets: 619
    As said above, its possible with well matched pickups. My EVH pickups each sound great, obviously been designed for their position and matched spot on. My modded Tele has a stock gorgeous sounding neck Fender lace single coil, now well matched to a Mojo mildly hot neck humbucker. 
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    I tend to set the amp very bright and a bit too loud. That way I can reduce both on the guitar either by the controls or picking technique. A decent but subtle compression helps. Also I agree that less drive or outright distortion helps. 
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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    One thing that is clear after leaving my wah on and cocked at tonight’s gig is that the punters really don’t give a damn what your guitar sounds like as long as they are dancing their hearts out!....
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    ESBlonde said:
    I tend to set the amp very bright and a bit too loud. That way I can reduce both on the guitar either by the controls or picking technique. A decent but subtle compression helps. Also I agree that less drive or outright distortion helps. 
    I often use a bright klone boost with an amp on the edge of breakup and another dirt pedal with its own eq if I need filth. Most of the material I play needs dirty cleans rather than spanky. If you know what I mean. 
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    darius said:
    As said above, its possible with well matched pickups. My EVH pickups each sound great, obviously been designed for their position and matched spot on. My modded Tele has a stock gorgeous sounding neck Fender lace single coil, now well matched to a Mojo mildly hot neck humbucker. 
    I was going to comment that I see this as the EVH problem, he said he only used single pick up guitars because he didn’t like the change in tone and it was only when he was involved in the design that he could go to twin pick up instruments. 

    When end I was gigging with my strat I thought of it as having graduations of tone and this wasn’t an issue. With twin pick up guitars I’m more aware of that contrast. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • dariusdarius Frets: 619
    poopot said:
    One thing that is clear after leaving my wah on and cocked at tonight’s gig is that the punters really don’t give a damn what your guitar sounds like as long as they are dancing their hearts out!....
    Yep. This. Done the same. Constant nagging feeling there's something wrong with the sound. Carry on regardless. Find Wah on after gig. Noone gave a ...
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  • soma1975soma1975 Frets: 6627
    Set your amp up for your neck pickup. Then adjust bridge tone/vol so that works too. 
    My Trade Feedback Thread is here

    Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
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