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I play in an acoustic blues trio. We got an XR18 last year and we're (I'm) loving it. 

Live our line up is usually me on EUB and Vocals on stage left (sometimes doghouse), Rob in the middle on acoustic guitar (DI), National (SM57), Banjo (DI) and Vocals, Dan on the end on acoustic guitar (DI), Mandolin (DPA4099), Kick Drum (Audix thing), Harmonica (Bulletini mic) and Vocals. Everything goes through the PA.

So we've got a lot of mics on a stage which is often about 6mx4m, playing venues of maximum 200 at the mo (pubs, bars, etc). 

Our first generation HK LUKAS has failed twice recently so we're looking to replace it. One of the guys in the band has suggested a pair of RCF 710s, no sub. My research has suggested that to get the kick and my EUB sounding good, we're gonna need a sub.

Is a pair of 710s a good idea? What would you otherwise suggest?

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Comments

  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 2966
    710s are great, but I think you’d need a sub.  We ran a pair with 2 15 inch subs, but that was a rock band in similar sized venues 

    we upgraded recently to the RCF Evox 8 and love it
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 1265
    The RCFs are reportedly good (no first hand experience), I use the Yamaha DXRs which I can recommend.  From you description a pair of tops and either one or two subs would be the ideal.  Those with more experience than myself would point you towards smaller tops (i.e. DXR10) when paired with a sub as they are better for vocals (smaller cone = more responsive).

    Aside from the cost (you haven't stated budget) you have to consider the practicalities as to where you store them and how you transport them.  A decent sub is big and heavy.  If you want to reduce the physical size without compromising quality then you increase the cost exponentially.

    Be very wary of cheap subs - they might have good specs (remember that the manufacturer chooses what to publish, there are no standards) but the reality is something with a strong resonant frequency - the so called 'one note sub' effect.  For a DJ it might be fine to have a booming bottom end but for a band you are looking for an even response across the full range.  Generally best to pair sub with top according to manufacturers guidance.

    6m x 4m stage??  You lucky bastards.  We're lucky to get 6' x 4' for a 4 piece with a full drum kit and even then there's probably a table in the middle :s
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 2966
    The evox mentioned above Is really compact, and has enough oomph for a 4 piece rock band.  For your application the Db Technologies equivalent may be enough, they’re really well priced and get excellent reviews, haven’t used them though

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_es602.htm
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 1767
    We use rcf12’s. they’re full range and have been brilliant so far.   Haven’t needed to get a sub as yet.  I’d get a couple of eq units tho(although no matter the setup I’d do that anyway)
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 1265
    John_A said:
     For your application the Db Technologies equivalent may be enough, they’re really well priced and get excellent reviews, haven’t used them though

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_es602.htm

    I've not tried the Db Tech linked but I have used similar systems.  The sound quality / compactness is great for very small venues but at118dB they aren't very loud and wouldn't be suitable, in my experience, for venues up to 200 people.

    Which HK Lucas system do you have today? 

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 2966
    The Db stuff generally seems not very powerful on paper but out performs its spec.  I replaced my dxr10 with a flexsys fm10 and it’s just as loud even though the specs say it shouldn’t be

    havent tried one of these either thou so you may be right
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  • We've got a first gen LUCAS (https://hkaudio.com/produkt/l-u-c-a-s/). The stage size might be a bit optimistic at 6m x 4m, we're gigging the same pubs as you guys and although we're acoustic, there's a LOT of instruments on stage so not much room. I'm only after one sub as we sit in a tight line and it would put the other sub inches away from the kick drum, unnecessarily risking feedback.

    Those dB es602s are CHEAP! Our budget is growing the more I convince the guys that a cheap n nasty set up just won't cut it. We played Leek Blues and Americana festival the other week and there was an impressive JBL system that not only sounded great, but was well-behaved (I engineer all our gigs whilst performing). I think <£2k will be about right for a sub, 2 tops and a new monitor (or maybe a couple of those dinky personal monitors)
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  • Musicwolf said:

    Aside from the cost (you haven't stated budget) you have to consider the practicalities as to where you store them and how you transport them.  A decent sub is big and heavy.  If you want to reduce the physical size without compromising quality then you increase the cost exponentially.

    The LUCAS system fits in the VW van and the Picasso we often travel in, and yeah I hadn't thought about packing stuff!
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  • Had a demo of the new HK linear 7 today, there is a lot of bass to be had from 12 on its own, so depending on how much kick you want in your sound you could probably get away with just these. I did buy a system to add to my hire stock
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 2966
    2K budget, I really would recommend looking at the RCF Evox 8.  I love ours.  2 subs, bit they're small, footprint is smaller then most speaker stands.  We put a full band including mic'd kit through them and they sound incredible
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