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Question.
I'm using Reaper with only the stock plugins, eg EQ, compressor,  multiband compressor,  limiter.. and I can't seem to get a mix that's anywhere near as classy as some other folk on here.   I want to know, is it because I'm bad at mixing and mastering  or is it generally regarded that the  stock plugins are pretty rubbish and everyone struggles to get a decent polished mix with them and I should do myself a favour and get some decent plugins?

Note,  noone  is allowed to say....a bit of both.

I'm hoping for some seasoned Reaper users to tell me their results were unsatisfactory too until they moved away from stock plugins. 
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Comments

  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    I think it is more a case of taking the time to get to know the plugin.
    I was using ReaEQ on everything, and ReaComp, and was getting pretty good results, but I also have the Slate package, so was keen to actually use some of it. Then I got the Fabfilter bundle, which is probably the best set of EQ tools out there.
    Look up Dan Worrells vids on YT re- making ReaEQ work as Multiband, and more advanced stuff, I think it is capable of doing most things, but sometimes it is easier to use something a bit more fancy.
    The stock Reaper stuff , plus the JS stuff is enough to never need to buy third party plugins, I just wish I had the patience and time to get to know it all.
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  • siremoonsiremoon Frets: 1524
    I'm about as far from an expert as you can get but I think the Reaper stock plugins are good.  I know this doesn't make any logical sense but I think not having a fancy graphical interface that looks like a rack mount box has the psychological effect of making you think they are poor.  It maybe also makes it more difficult to dial in if you're used to more conventional looking plugins although there's a lot of tutorials out there from people who seem to know what they are talking about.  The bottom line is, as always, your ears.  If they don't sound right to you then try something else.  
    “He is like a man with a fork in a world of soup.” - Noel Gallagher
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    I reckon stock plugins in any DAW should be good enough to get you a good polished mix, if you can use them effectively. 3rd party plugins may have a different workflow or functions which people will prefer, but an EQ is always just going to be an EQ and will not dramatically improve your mix. If you post up a mix, we could provide some feedback!

    Having said that, I am guilty of indulging in 3rd party plugins to "help" my mixes, mainly reverbs.
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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    Good good so it sounds like I'm the problem not thre stock plugins.  At least that gives me direction and focus now :)
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  • I'm still learning, but this is what I've discovered so far. I wonder whether I jumped to non-Reaper VSTs too early, without spending enough time with them.

    For basic track EQ (and frequency sculpting) I just use ReaEQ in Reaper. Apart from that, my use of VST effects is largely limited to the following. And it's usually because they have a certain character I like.

    Delay: Mainly Valhalla Delay these days. I think it's good to have a delay with characterful options.

    Schwa CMX: Good for a polished doubling effect.

    Bus reverb: One of the Valhalla Reverbs (usually Valhalla Room). Again nice character.

    Mastering EQ: Either IK Multimedia EQP-1A Mastering EQ or Native Instruments Passive EQ. Sometimes I think they do something good to the sound of the overall track. The presets give a good (trial and error) starting point that I can then tweak. I wonder whether I could get similar results with ReaEQ and other Reaper VSTs if my mixing skills were better.

    Mastering limiter: Voxengo Elephant. It adds limiting/loudness without adding unwanted colouration and I've been using it for years. There may be other free or lower cost alternatives around now.

    Plus a couple of free ones that help with mixes, which are utility VSTs:
    Youlean loudness meter. I've recently started to use this one as a check on overall loudness. Also checking that my ears aren't deceiving me. For example, that I'm not crushing the life out of my mixes by getting carried away with Voxengo Elephant :)

    Voxengo Span: Just a visual check on the overall frequency response and whether there might be anything amiss that my ears are missing. I've got Span Plus, but so far Span does what I need I need.

    Apart from that, I use effects in the guitar/bass ampsims (e.g. within Line 6 Native) or within instrument VSTi's (e.g. drum VSTi's). This is because I'm in the home recording world of ampsims and virtual instruments. Things would probably be different when recording real world stuff from scratch.

    It's not a competition.
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  • oafoaf Frets: 300
    I found this book helpful

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Secrets-Small-Studio-Presents/dp/1138556378/

    I'm pretty sure Reaper plugins are not the limiting factor (I'm afraid!) but there's no doubt third party stuff can make certain things much easier. Like most skills you need to keep working on it - and also appreciate that while tracks might sound wrong when soloed (e.g. severe EQ cuts) they're right when part of an entire mix.

    ^ and note that I've written all that having received and installed the iZotope Music Production Suite 3 update this week...! :-)

    Why not post some mixes for feedback or get involved in the mixing competitions? Or post some stems from a project and see what others can do with them (with only stock plugins)? Could be a good learning experience for all of us.
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited October 2019
    oaf said:

    Yes, I read the first edition of that book when it was released in 2011. I didn't know it had been updated to a second edition, so I just got it. Time for a refresher.
     
    It's not a competition.
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    I agree that the interfaces aren't very inviting but they are pretty decent once you get the hang. 
    There are loads of good free (or trial) plugs to have a go at. 
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  • I also dont have mixes where I want them so I might not be qualified to answer but imo the reaper plugins are pretty decent, especially reaComp and reaEQ.

    I wonder if it might be fun to have a mix challenge using nothing but stock reaper plugins, im pretty sure the guys with the best mixes will still have the best mixes :)
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    Thanks this is all good to hear,  it's good to know I probably already have the right tools available,  I just need to get better at using them. 
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    I also dont have mixes where I want them so I might not be qualified to answer but imo the reaper plugins are pretty decent, especially reaComp and reaEQ.

    I wonder if it might be fun to have a mix challenge using nothing but stock reaper plugins, im pretty sure the guys with the best mixes will still have the best mixes :)
    @poopot idea for next mix challenge. Stock plugins!
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  • Reaper’s plug-ins should get you a long way, think of some of the others available as ‘flavours’. I would suggest firstly YouTubing or Googling ‘Free plugins’, there are so many available now and give a few of those a go. I’d also check out this page https://blog.landr.com/8-free-vst-plugins-warm-sound/ for some saturation plug-ins, a saturation plug-in pre or post Reaper’s EQ could give you a bit of character and dimension to your sounds. Good luck!
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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    edited October 2019
    Branshen said:
    I also dont have mixes where I want them so I might not be qualified to answer but imo the reaper plugins are pretty decent, especially reaComp and reaEQ.

    I wonder if it might be fun to have a mix challenge using nothing but stock reaper plugins, im pretty sure the guys with the best mixes will still have the best mixes
    @poopot idea for next mix challenge. Stock plugins!
    I’m happy with that... will be making stems available later today for the next one... I’m happy to put that in as a rule!

    if anyone fancies it... the challeneg is here:
    https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/165587/mixing-challenge-no-7
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    poopot said:
    Branshen said:
    I also dont have mixes where I want them so I might not be qualified to answer but imo the reaper plugins are pretty decent, especially reaComp and reaEQ.

    I wonder if it might be fun to have a mix challenge using nothing but stock reaper plugins, im pretty sure the guys with the best mixes will still have the best mixes
    @poopot idea for next mix challenge. Stock plugins!
    I’m happy with that... will be making stems available later today for the next one... I’m happy to put that in as a rule!

    if anyone fancies it... the challeneg is here:
    https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/165587/mixing-challenge-no-7
    @fastonebaz have you joined one of these? It's good fun if you have time to put a mix together. 
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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    Not yet no, 
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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    I downloaded numerous plugins and watched numerous tutorials about mixing and mastering.  I've learnt what all the options are on a compressor and multiband compressors and about using EQ to create space for èach instrument and panning and saturation and limiters and buses etc.   

    But

    I still think I'm excellent at making my tracks sound worse, just too dull,  they lack sparkle.  Maybe it's my ears. On the  videos the producers are moving their dials by small increments as if they can hear a difference and to me it sounds identical.

    What is the secret sparkle plugin that everyone else must use?


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  • I still think I'm excellent at making my tracks sound worse, just too dull,  they lack sparkle.  Maybe it's my ears. On the  videos the producers are moving their dials by small increments as if they can hear a difference and to me it sounds identical.

    What is the secret sparkle plugin that everyone else must use?
    I have exactly this problem, and it's largely because I have extremely high-frequency tinnitus which messes with everything. Makes it basically impossible to differentiate between subtle variations on the same sound, as well as ruining my acoustic perception.

    Do you have any hearing issues?
    <space for hire>
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    You can even make your own in reaper!
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    I downloaded numerous plugins and watched numerous tutorials about mixing and mastering.  I've learnt what all the options are on a compressor and multiband compressors and about using EQ to create space for èach instrument and panning and saturation and limiters and buses etc.   

    But

    I still think I'm excellent at making my tracks sound worse, just too dull,  they lack sparkle.  Maybe it's my ears. On the  videos the producers are moving their dials by small increments as if they can hear a difference and to me it sounds identical.

    What is the secret sparkle plugin that everyone else must use?


    Hard to tell what issues you're facing without having a sample of a mix of yours. If you join the mix challenge, we'll have a great way to discuss and compare mixes.

    80% of a mix is volume balance. Make sure everything can be heard as much as it needs to be. After that, I'd EQ and compress the tracks as needed. It would help if you could hear the changes while mixing, I assume you're using reference monitors to mix? 

    I haven't found a secret sparkle plugin, but one process that has helped my mixes alot is mix bus compression. 
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  • BodBod Frets: 1286
    Maybe it's my ears. On the  videos the producers are moving their dials by small increments as if they can hear a difference and to me it sounds identical.
    Don't underestimate the impact of room acoustics.  My mixes are always a bit of guesswork in the low end due to standing waves and phase cancellation.  While ear training is essential to hearing the little changes, these problems can mask them so you stand no chance.

    There's not much I can do about my situation as I'm at the end of a dining room, so options are limited.  I have to A/B on other systems a lot to check what's going on.

    Also, the compression used by YouTube can restrict what you're able to hear, so don't be too disheartened when you can't hear the differences.
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