FX loops / line out

hotpickups

I've been looking at a back up amp that I can use if the worse happens etc and plug into a PA or something to get me through a gig. Is it correct that I could use the SEND out of the FX loop to use it as a LINE OUT to a PA / Desk / DAW etc or should it be a dedicated XLR ideally?

ICBM

You can use the FX send, but it won't be speaker-emulated - so unless you have a DI box with that, or can do it at the desk. then the sound will be very buzzy and boomy. Powerful EQ at the desk can sometimes be enough to fix it, although it won't be ideal.

The good news is that many small amps now have speaker-emulated line outputs, including even a few valve ones.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

You can use the FX send, but it won't be speaker-emulated - so unless you have a DI box with that, or can do it at the desk. then the sound will be very buzzy and boomy. Powerful EQ at the desk can sometimes be enough to fix it, although it won't be ideal.

The good news is that many small amps now have speaker-emulated line outputs, including even a few valve ones.

So they’ll be no difference in an XLR or SEND outputs then @ICBM ?

i have a choice of one or the other on this amp I’ve spotted in other words its a choice thing so which would be better? XLR is a balanced output so better? . I realise I’d need cab sim on both though 

danowens

If the FX Send is series (and they often are) then plugging in a cable would interrupt the output. If the problem is in your speaker, or poweramp then you could use the FX Send, but if the problem is in the preamp then it wouldn't be a good alternative. If you wanted to leave it plugged in the you would need to connect it to the return too (and use some kind of signal splitter)

hotpickups

danowens said:

If the FX Send is series (and they often are) then plugging in a cable would interrupt the output. If the problem is in your speaker, or poweramp then you could use the FX Send, but if the problem is in the preamp then it wouldn't be a good alternative. If you wanted to leave it plugged in the you would need to connect it to the return too (and use some kind of signal splitter)

Blimey it gets more and more complicated So an XLR output is the better option?

ICBM

Usually it’s the FX return which is switched, not the send. The difference is that an XLR output will often be speaker-emulated - although not always. If it’s not, if anything you’d probably be better off with a 1/4” output because you can then use an emulating DI box.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

Usually it’s the FX return which is switched, not the send. The difference is that an XLR output will often be speaker-emulated - although not always. If it’s not, if anything you’d probably be better off with a 1/4” output because you can then use an emulating DI box.

Can't one use an emulated DI box with an XLR then @ICBM or do they not receive those kind of cables

lukedlb

Forgive me; I’ve long wondered what Line Out is for on amp. Can anyone explain?

ICBM

hotpickups said:

Can't one use an emulated DI box with an XLR then @ICBM or do they not receive those kind of cables

Not really - none of the ones I know of are designed to receive a low-impedance balanced signal, ie what is carried by an XLR cable.

lukedlb said:

Forgive me; I’ve long wondered what Line Out is for on amp. Can anyone explain?

For connecting to a PA or recording desk, or to a slave amp to increase the total power. For PA/recording you will still need speaker emulation, but for a slave amp you don't since it will then go through more guitar speakers.

Because of the different uses, I think it's generally better for a 1/4" output to be non-emulated, but an XLR to be emulated.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Can't one use an emulated DI box with an XLR then @ICBM or do they not receive those kind of cables

Not really - none of the ones I know of are designed to receive a low-impedance balanced signal, ie what is carried by an XLR cable.

lukedlb said:

Forgive me; I’ve long wondered what Line Out is for on amp. Can anyone explain?

For connecting to a PA or recording desk, or to a slave amp to increase the total power. For PA/recording you will still need speaker emulation, but for a slave amp you don't since it will then go through more guitar speakers.

Because of the different uses, I think it's generally better for a 1/4" output to be non-emulated, but an XLR to be emulated.

Damn. So why the does the DV Micro head 50 which comes with an XLR option be viable when there is no such cab sim available to take it etc?

ICBM

hotpickups said:

Damn. So why the does the DV Micro head 50 which comes with an XLR option be viable when there is no such cab sim available to take it etc?

I don't know. Maybe they're assuming it will be connected to a mixing desk or recording setup with software speaker emulation... but it still seems poorly thought-through. I did check the spec and it doesn't mention onboard emulation.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Damn. So why the does the DV Micro head 50 which comes with an XLR option be viable when there is no such cab sim available to take it etc?

I don't know. Maybe they're assuming it will be connected to a mixing desk or recording setup with software speaker emulation... but it still seems poorly thought-through. I did check the spec and it doesn't mention onboard emulation.

There's definitely no on board emulation but was hoping to go to a cab sim box before going into the PA. Must be a hole in the market  Their EV0 1 does but overall it's way too much that I'd ever use and it' size is like taking a video recorder with you to a gig

lukedlb

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Can't one use an emulated DI box with an XLR then @ICBM or do they not receive those kind of cables

Not really - none of the ones I know of are designed to receive a low-impedance balanced signal, ie what is carried by an XLR cable.

lukedlb said:

Forgive me; I’ve long wondered what Line Out is for on amp. Can anyone explain?

For connecting to a PA or recording desk, or to a slave amp to increase the total power. For PA/recording you will still need speaker emulation, but for a slave amp you don't since it will then go through more guitar speakers.

Because of the different uses, I think it's generally better for a 1/4" output to be non-emulated, but an XLR to be emulated.

Thank you for the explanation. 

tekbow

lukedlb said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Can't one use an emulated DI box with an XLR then @ICBM or do they not receive those kind of cables

Not really - none of the ones I know of are designed to receive a low-impedance balanced signal, ie what is carried by an XLR cable.

lukedlb said:

Forgive me; I’ve long wondered what Line Out is for on amp. Can anyone explain?

For connecting to a PA or recording desk, or to a slave amp to increase the total power. For PA/recording you will still need speaker emulation, but for a slave amp you don't since it will then go through more guitar speakers.

Because of the different uses, I think it's generally better for a 1/4" output to be non-emulated, but an XLR to be emulated.

Thank you for the explanation. 

Can also be used for Wet Dry setups providing it's a lineout from the output.

Lineout - FX - power amp of some description-second (and potentially third) speaker cab.

hotpickups

I've ordered one of those DV Micro head 50s now. In terms of a cab sim for it could I use my Joyo American sound that sits between it and the PA mixer etc? Sorry I am so new to this game

steamabacus

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Damn. So why the does the DV Micro head 50 which comes with an XLR option be viable when there is no such cab sim available to take it etc?

I don't know. Maybe they're assuming it will be connected to a mixing desk or recording setup with software speaker emulation... but it still seems poorly thought-through. I did check the spec and it doesn't mention onboard emulation.

There's definitely no on board emulation but was hoping to go to a cab sim box before going into the PA. Must be a hole in the market  Their EV0 1 does but overall it's way too much that I'd ever use and it' size is like taking a video recorder with you to a gig

The older versions of the Hughes & Kettner Red Box DI have a line level input in addition to the speaker level input. It's a jack input but a straightforward XLR - jack cable (like a cheapo mic cable) between amp and Red Box should do the trick.

http://oldies.hughes-and-kettner.com/Red_Box_Mk%20II/REDBOXMK2.PDF

vasselmeyer

I have a DV Micro 50 head. I have a Palmer cab simulator which takes an input from the speaker out of the amp and then has XLR out which feeds a cab emulated signal to the desk. Because the DV Mark is a solid state amp, you can run it without a dummy load so you can run a silent stage.

hotpickups

vasselmeyer said:

I have a DV Micro 50 head. I have a Palmer cab simulator which takes an input from the speaker out of the amp and then has XLR out which feeds a cab emulated signal to the desk. Because the DV Mark is a solid state amp, you can run it without a dummy load so you can run a silent stage.

@vasselmeyer speaker out? I thought one had to use the SEND out to a cab sim? This is when you run into a PA yeah?

ICBM

hotpickups said:

@vasselmeyer speaker out? I thought one had to use the SEND out to a cab sim? This is when you run into a PA yeah?

This and similar things like the Red Box are designed to take a speaker signal input, so you can use them in place of mic'ing the cab. With a valve amp you still need a load (cab or dummy) attached as well or you'll damage the amp, but most solid-state amps are fine with no load so you can just use it on its own.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

@vasselmeyer speaker out? I thought one had to use the SEND out to a cab sim? This is when you run into a PA yeah?

This and similar things like the Red Box are designed to take a speaker signal input, so you can use them in place of mic'ing the cab. With a valve amp you still need a load (cab or dummy) attached as well or you'll damage the amp, but most solid-state amps are fine with no load so you can just use it on its own.

Sorry can you explain what would be the difference if I used the speaker out or the SEND out into the cab sim , does it matter?

ICBM

If you use the send you won't get any of the voicing of the power amp, if that's important - if you use the speaker output you will. With a solid-state amp it may not be very different from the preamp though.