Great lesson on borrowed chords

Branshen

Simple, concise and good examples. 

Bellycaster

Good video, but I'd need to further my theory knowledge to fluently understand this. That said I am often in awe when learning a given song and realising that it has such a genius chord structure, one that doesn't stay only in one key, but to the untrained ear, seems not to chop and change keys, if you understand? I guess that's just the genius of the songwriters melodic capability.

A good example, seeing as an Elton song is in the vid, is, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. What an awesome composition.

Another example that surprised me recently was Starship "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us", Yeah, I know it's what some would call "Cheesy" but I just felt like learning it 

That's got a couple of Borrowed Chords in there. The main part of the song is in F# Major, but in verse 2 and at the end of the Chorus there is an E Major Chord and also in the Bridge there is a Bb Minor Chord. Both E Major and Bb Minor not being in the key of F# Maj of course.

Before I looked at the chords, I'd never have guessed it had borrowed chords as the song just seems to flow. I know the song goes up a semi tone just before the solo, but that's different.

I think it's a very cleverly written song.

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/starship/nothings_gonna_stop_us_now_chords_860555

.

viz

Bellycaster said:

Good video, but I'd need to further my theory knowledge to fluently understand this. That said I am often in awe when learning a given song and realising that it has such a genius chord structure, one that doesn't stay only in one key, but to the untrained ear, seems not to chop and change keys, if you understand? I guess that's just the genius of the songwriters melodic capability.

A good example, seeing as an Elton song is in the vid, is, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. What an awesome composition.

Another example that surprised me recently was Starship "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us", Yeah, I know it's what some would call "Cheesy" but I just felt like learning it 

That's got a couple of Borrowed Chords in there. The main part of the song is in F# Major, but in verse 2 and at the end of the Chorus there is an E Major Chord and also in the Bridge there is a Bb Minor Chord. Both E Major and Bb Minor not being in the key of F# Maj of course.

Before I looked at the chords, I'd never have guessed it had borrowed chords as the song just seems to flow. I know the song goes up a semi tone just before the solo, but that's different.

I think it's a very cleverly written song.

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/starship/nothings_gonna_stop_us_now_chords_860555

.

I love cheese and yep that song is great. Can’t wait for the 80s revival!

The E chord is normally called a “flat 7” chord. In F# major the 7th chord would typically be based off E# (sounds like F but is written E#). The flat 7 chord is borrowed from F# minor. You can also think of the song as suddenly sounding mixolydian-ish for a moment. 

The other one, that so-called Bb minor, is a red herring, caused by the person who wrote that chord structure not knowing how keys work and confusing us. 

F# major has 6 sharps. It’s right at the bottom of the circle of 5ths. You can also call it Gb major, in which case it would have 6 flats. Either way it’s an awkward key to write in. Its notes are F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#. 

The chord writer has mistakenly spelled chord iii (A# minor) as Bb minor. (S)he’s also spelled chord vi (D# minor) as Eb minor throughout, by the way. 

So that “Bb minor” is just a chord iii. You’re right though, it does sound unexpected. I think that’s because it appears out of the blue and only happens there. 

Footnote: I like the fact that the semitone-up modulation in the final chorus goes from an awkward key to a simple one. Most songwriters would start in, say, G, and modulate up to Ab. But by slipping up from F# to G, one of the most guitaristic of keys, the guitarist can slam out a massive open G Pete Townshend-style, the band can all relax, and they can all enjoy rocking out in G-Em-C-D till the end.  

Bellycaster

Thanks for the breakdown of that @viz ;

I'm also a big 80's fan. Great explanation and I understood what you were saying. I'm an idiot for not realising that all the chords in the Bridge are actually in the Key of F# Major, like you say, it threw me because the author of that Ultimate Guitar chord page wrote it wrong, should have been A# Minor, which I should have worked out for myself.

Re the modulation, aye, very handy to have it move the key up to somewhere us Guitarists are more familiar with. Obviously intentional, like you say.

Ta!

viz

Bellycaster said:

I'm an idiot for not realising that all the chords in the Bridge are actually in the Key of F# Major, like you say, it threw me because the author of that Ultimate Guitar chord page wrote it wrong, should have been A# Minor, which I should have worked out for myself.

I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself - events conspired against you! If it had been in G from the beginning and you hadn’t had the benefit of an erroneous chord sheet you’d have played Bm and know perfectly well it was chord iii. If it weren’t for the modulation it would have been unnecessarily awkward to have written in F# in the first place. 

Bellycaster

viz said:

Bellycaster said:

I'm an idiot for not realising that all the chords in the Bridge are actually in the Key of F# Major, like you say, it threw me because the author of that Ultimate Guitar chord page wrote it wrong, should have been A# Minor, which I should have worked out for myself.

I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself - events conspired against you! If it had been in G from the beginning and you hadn’t had the benefit of an erroneous chord sheet you’d have played Bm and know perfectly well it was chord iii. If it weren’t for the modulation it would have been unnecessarily awkward to have written in F# in the first place. 

I feel we must now demand a sequel to Spinal Tap so that Nigel can point out that F# is "The most awkward of all Keys"

stratman3142

When I listen to the very first example it's interesting because I interpret the section as being in C#m (Aeolian) then, when it goes to Am6, it takes on a C# harmonic minor quality rather than Em. But that's taking a C#m reference point instead of an E major reference point.

viz

stratman3142 said:

When I listen to the very first example it's interesting because I interpret the section as being in C#m (Aeolian)

Me too and that changes the whole analysis because it’s not even a borrowed chord from C# major. But if you listen to the whole song - which I did because I had exactly the same thought as you! - the song is in fact in E - that’s just a temporary modulation, the bit in C#m. 

stratman3142

viz said:

stratman3142 said:

When I listen to the very first example it's interesting because I interpret the section as being in C#m (Aeolian)

Me too and that changes the whole analysis because it’s not even a borrowed chord from C# major. But if you listen to the whole song - which I did because I had exactly the same thought as you! - the song is in fact in E - that’s just a temporary modulation, the bit in C#m. 

To me the Am6 becomes more obvious if just thought of as C#m (Aeolian) temporarily having a major 7th (i.e C# harmonic minor).

viz

stratman3142 said:

viz said:

stratman3142 said:

When I listen to the very first example it's interesting because I interpret the section as being in C#m (Aeolian)

Me too and that changes the whole analysis because it’s not even a borrowed chord from C# major. But if you listen to the whole song - which I did because I had exactly the same thought as you! - the song is in fact in E - that’s just a temporary modulation, the bit in C#m. 

To me the Am6 becomes more obvious if just thought of as C#m (Aeolian) temporarily having a major 7th (i.e C# harmonic minor).

Know what you mean. I still mainly hear it as a minor bvi chord though (especially as the harmonic minor is really only applicable over the V chord, which would be a G#)