Grain filling - what's the secret?

Haych

I don't think I'm getting very far.

I have a nice water based clear filler which dries quite quickly and I want to fill the grain on a nice piece of white oak before applying a poly clear coat.

After filling I'm sanding back with a very well worn piece of 220 grit paper.   The guy in the instructional video for the filler used 220 and 320, but new, not used so I think I ought to be ok with used 220.

I have two problems.  1.) after sanding the filler back it doesn't seem to have done much, it doesn't feel any smoother than before the grain was filled, so I'm wondering if 220 even worn is still too aggressive?  2.) the filler is picking up and glazing on the paper even though I'm not lathering it on and I'm trying to use it sparingly.

Is there any reason why I couldn't use wet & dry with some form of lubricant to stop the paper clogging?  I recall getting good results using a bit of white spirit some years ago, but that was with a cellulose based filler on mahogany.

If there are any tips on how to get good results I'd be glad to learn.

TIA

Roland

Anything designed to fill grain is likely to clog abrasive paper. Things to think about:
1. Make sure the filler is really dry, not just touch dry, before sanding.
2. Use fresh abrasive sheets. New abrasive granules have hard edges. It not only sands quicker, it also stands finer than worn abrasive. It’s similar to sharp and blunt knives.
3. Hoover up the dust, and also the surface of the abrasive paper.
4. If you want abrasive which doesn’t clog then use Abranet which, as it’s name suggests, has a net basis rather than a solid sheet. The dust escapes through the holes rather than clogging. It’s more expensive, but you don’t use as much.
5. Oak is harder than Mahogany, and can be difficult to sand. It also has a larger pore structure, so is more difficult to fill.

Haych

Roland said:

Anything designed to fill grain is likely to clog abrasive paper. Things to think about:
1. Make sure the filler is really dry, not just touch dry, before sanding.
2. Use fresh abrasive sheets. New abrasive granules have hard edges. It not only sands quicker, it also stands finer than worn abrasive. It’s similar to sharp and blunt knives.
3. Hoover up the dust, and also the surface of the abrasive paper.
4. If you want abrasive which doesn’t clog then use Abranet which, as it’s name suggests, has a net basis rather than a solid sheet. The dust escapes through the holes rather than clogging. It’s more expensive, but you don’t use as much.
5. Oak is harder than Mahogany, and can be difficult to sand. It also has a larger pore structure, so is more difficult to fill.

Thanks Roland, I'll keep the above in mind and will persevere with the task at hand.  Cheers.

Sarge

I was advised to rub the filler in with a soft cloth, going perpendicular to the grain and get as much off the surface as possible before it dries.
That works for me and always using new 240g abranet paper, yes it clogs a little but a small price to pay. 
I always do two rounds of this and sometimes a 3rd and results are generally excellent.
I only use Rustins filler, the natural colour can be dyed beforehand  

MadOne

Sarge said:

I was advised to rub the filler in with a soft cloth, going perpendicular to the grain and get as much off the surface as possible before it dries.
That works for me and always using new 240g abranet paper, yes it clogs a little but a small price to pay. 
I always do two rounds of this and sometimes a 3rd and results are generally excellent.
I only use Rustins filler, the natural colour can be dyed beforehand  

Will the rustins grain filler take a black dye? I've got an open pore Mahogany body that I'd like refinished after filling the pores black. Thank you 

Sarge

MadOne said:

Sarge said:

I was advised to rub the filler in with a soft cloth, going perpendicular to the grain and get as much off the surface as possible before it dries.
That works for me and always using new 240g abranet paper, yes it clogs a little but a small price to pay. 
I always do two rounds of this and sometimes a 3rd and results are generally excellent.
I only use Rustins filler, the natural colour can be dyed beforehand  

Will the rustins grain filler take a black dye? I've got an open pore Mahogany body that I'd like refinished after filling the pores black. Thank you 

Yeah the natural colour filler will take a black dye, I last used a spirit based black dye with it and it didn't take too well, it came out more of a dark grey. 
Previously I'd used Keda dye powder in a little water and mixed that in which came out really well. 

MadOne

Sarge said:

MadOne said:

Sarge said:

I was advised to rub the filler in with a soft cloth, going perpendicular to the grain and get as much off the surface as possible before it dries.
That works for me and always using new 240g abranet paper, yes it clogs a little but a small price to pay. 
I always do two rounds of this and sometimes a 3rd and results are generally excellent.
I only use Rustins filler, the natural colour can be dyed beforehand  

Will the rustins grain filler take a black dye? I've got an open pore Mahogany body that I'd like refinished after filling the pores black. Thank you 

Yeah the natural colour filler will take a black dye, I last used a spirit based black dye with it and it didn't take too well, it came out more of a dark grey. 
Previously I'd used Keda dye powder in a little water and mixed that in which came out really well. 

Cool, thanks for the info, I've yet to take the guitar apart and strip it but will get some if that dye powder in