How do you get a verse from a chorus

steven70

Frustration boiling over - got some (if I do say do myself) decent choruses. Catchy and good to play over until fade.
But totally stuck as to how to transition into a verse.

I know a bit of theory...i.e. can work out what scale I am in. 
If I pick chords from the same scale/mode for the verse it sounds one dimensional.
If I go to chords outside the scale it sounds forced and artificial, a wilful smart arse prog vibe. 
Needs to sounds natural/organic but still interesting.

Any tricks and tips for breaking through this block?
I can see the shape of the damned thing in my mind but can't articulate.
Have the progression on a loop but the temptation is to solo over it.

Ideas appreciated...happy to indulge in some theory.

Cheers

Roland

Forget any thoughts of rules and conventions. They’re used to explain and document what’s going on, but aren’t going to add any excitement. There are plenty of examples where memorable songs break established rules. Africa doesn’t have a specific home key, and it skips a couple of beats somewhere. Bohemian Rhapsody is “too long to be played on the radio”. What you need is inspiration. 

Tricks that you can try:
- Same chords in a different order. Breakfast at Tiffany’s and Sweet Child of Mine.
- Same chords, but swap one of them to the relative major or minor.
- Same chords, but with (or without) distortion. Song 2, and Breakfast at Tiffany’s. 
- Similar chords up or down by a few semitones. Valerie goes up 4. 

- Follow the melody. Produce a variation of it. Then work out which chords fit that.

You said that using chords outside of the scale sounds forced. So what? Treat it as an exercise. Throw the cards in the air. See which one lands. Find a way to make it work.

steven70

Thank you @Roland for the constructive and practical suggestions.
Really appreciated- and the examples for reference. Perfect.

I'll put aside an hour or two this afternoon, try those ideas and also just see what happens.
My problem is taking it all too seriously (well it is important to me, but...no good getting frustrated) - treating as an exercise will help.

Thank you
  

Funkfingers

If you have a beat, chord sequence and melody for a chorus, try coming up with a verse melody over just the beat. It is easier to fit chords to a melody than the other way around. 

Some of the all-time great songs have very few chords or changes in them. 

If by "transition", you mean a bridge, check out the changes in Like A Rolling Stone. It creates tension that is released when the the song reaches the chorus section. (If you dislike Dylan, listen to the Hendrix version instead.)

viz

If the verse is minor, try modulating to the same note’s major key. Like Rio

or modulate to the relative major (eg from A minor to a section in C major). Like Delilah or comf numb

Send us the verse, maybe we can provide some ideas. 

Edit. Just read your post properly. Ok so do my suggestions in reverse

steven70

Thanks people - again some good practical stuff, much appreciated.
Still getting there but I feel less trapped now and enjoying the process.

Too self conscious so send the verse just yet- maybe will post a demo if and when I get the thing done.

Cheers

flying_pie

Another approach is to make one section more chord focused and the other based around a prominent riff. Works for either verse or chorus

AndyJP

I find focusing on the rhythm can really help.   If you've tried driving it from the melody/harmony without luck try the rhythm angle. 

The parts you have will have a groove.  That basic groove is likely to flow through your verses too.   Maybe the rhythm is simplified for your verses.    For me once I have the groove I find it easier to slot the harmony/melody into

Funkfingers

AndyJP said:

focusing on the rhythm can really help. ... The parts you have will have a groove.  That basic groove is likely to flow through your verses too.   Maybe the rhythm is simplified for your verses. 

Maybe, you could borrow a quaint old trick from before digital audio workstation recording? Have the tempo lift and drop slightly for the different sections. More urgency for the chorus. More relaxed for the verse.

Snags

Also worth bearing in mind that for some songs the chords just don't change at all (e.g. Tennessee Whisky, Wicked Game) but the melody goes elsewhere.

I've found, in my limited experience, that whilst there are "template tricks" you can use, many of which are detailed above, at the end of the day you just go with what works for that song. Some songs end up being driven by the words/melody, others by the rhythm, others by the chord structures or riffs - go for feel over technical correctness (which isn't just an excuse for being sloppy AF on my part ).