Junior V Special

Hootsmon

You think there is a sonic difference at all due to only one pick up and cavity? 

Oh, is the pick up mounting on the Junior different too from the bridge pick up setting on the special?

stimpsonslostson

There are various theories about magnetic interference and (I believe) harmonic nodes... Plus folk talk about the single route allowing greater/uninterrupted resonance. 

I'm no expert, but I certainly believe that my Esquire sounds better than the same guitar did as a standard Tele. 

Regarding mountings- aren't Specials usually soapbar rather than Jr's Dog-ears? No idea whether this has an impact, but Dog ears LOOK cooler to me! 

tony99

the special is better, twice as good in fact, due to it having double the amount of pickupacitators

RandallFlagg

Doug & Pat compared Jr to a Special in this video, the Jr sounded better to my ears. It's a long video so wind forward to see the comparison

ICBM

There are three major differences:

Special neck tenon routed through - on double-cuts, the difference on singles is only the very end of the tenon.
Magnetic pull of the neck pickup on the Special
Dogear vs soapbar pickup mounting

I owned two vintage ones at the same time, both '57s - the Junior was far more aggressive, sustaining and powerful-sounding - the Special was thinner, brighter and spikier. Unsurprisingly and annoyingly, I prefered the Special's versatility and its neck and middle sounds, but the Junior's bridge pickup sound. Which of the differences was most responsible I'm not sure... if it's the pickup mounting you could fix a Special (though probably not on a 50s one!) by changing the mount to a dogear.

Of course it might have just been the difference between two different guitars of the same model anyway.

For what it's worth, and totally contrary to popular wisdom, both guitars sounded better with an original Leo Quan Badass bridge than they did with the stopbar. (Although I only had one Badass, so I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison.)

abw1989

If you buy one of right (or wrong depending on your preference) ones you get the Junior with the extra pick up cavity:



Note the lack of neck pick up mounted to the pickguard.

Hootsmon

Thanks all......so on a Junior there is no cavity.......pick up is top mounted?

ICBM

Hootsmon said:

Thanks all......so on a Junior there is no cavity.......pick up is top mounted?

There is a cavity, but the pickup is suspended over the top of it and the ends of the baseplate are screwed to the body under the cover's dog ears.

Hootsmon

Since i ama here....which do you prefer....sunburst (baccy) or TV yellow?

Hootsmon

does any one have a pic of a Junior with scratch plate and pick up removed?

Brize

ICBM said:

There are three major differences:

Special neck tenon routed through - on double-cuts, the difference on singles is only the very end of the tenon.
Magnetic pull of the neck pickup on the Special
Dogear vs soapbar pickup mounting

I owned two vintage ones at the same time, both '57s - the Junior was far more aggressive, sustaining and powerful-sounding - the Special was thinner, brighter and spikier. Unsurprisingly and annoyingly, I prefered the Special's versatility and its neck and middle sounds, but the Junior's bridge pickup sound. Which of the differences was most responsible I'm not sure... if it's the pickup mounting you could fix a Special (though probably not on a 50s one!) by changing the mount to a dogear.

Of course it might have just been the difference between two different guitars of the same model anyway.

For what it's worth, and totally contrary to popular wisdom, both guitars sounded better with an original Leo Quan Badass bridge than they did with the stopbar. (Although I only had one Badass, so I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison.)

I'm not convinced by the idea that the Junior is a better sounding guitar - I've played great and no-so-great Juniors and the same with Specials. The problem is that you never know whether you're just hearing the differences in the individual guitars rather than the presence or lack of the neck pickup pull, for example. People waffle on about the magnetic pull of the neck pickup, but it doesn't seem to be a problem on Bursts.

Brize

Hootsmon said:

Since i ama here....which do you prefer....sunburst (baccy) or TV yellow?

TV Yellow every time - brilliant colour.

ICBM

Hootsmon said:

Since i ama here....which do you prefer....sunburst (baccy) or TV yellow?

Neither - both ugly in my opinion. The sunburst wouldn't be as bad if it didn't have the horrible yellow paint in the middle.

Cherry is the best finish, although of course historically 'incorrect' on single-cut ones.

Brize said:

I'm not convinced by the idea that the Junior is a better sounding guitar - I've played great and no-so-great Juniors and the same with Specials. The problem is that you never know whether you're just hearing the differences in the individual guitars rather than the presence or lack of the neck pickup pull, for example. People waffle on about the magnetic pull of the neck pickup, but it doesn't seem to be a problem on Bursts.

It's not as strong on humbuckers, the magnetic field is more diffuse.

I agree about not knowing whether you're hearing the individual guitar or an inherent difference though.

Danielsguitars

ICBM said:

Hootsmon said:

Since i ama here....which do you prefer....sunburst (baccy) or TV yellow?

Neither - both ugly in my opinion. The sunburst wouldn't be as bad if it didn't have the horrible yellow paint in the middle.

Cherry is the best finish, although of course historically 'incorrect' on single-cut ones.

There's a 59 junior painted cherry, never seen it but it's recorded, so it could be vintage correct, I've thought about doing that myself

springhead

I've played and compared quite a few 50's juniors and specials. I do think the juniors are a little more aggressive, ballsy sounding. I think junior vs special makes more of a difference sonically than single vs double cut. Both are great sounding guitars, I like the neck pickup on a special and also the lovely jangly clean sound of the mid position.

Iamnobody

ICBM said:

Hootsmon said:

Since i ama here....which do you prefer....sunburst (baccy) or TV yellow?

Neither - both ugly in my opinion. The sunburst wouldn't be as bad if it didn't have the horrible yellow paint in the middle.

It’s the yellow that makes it for me! 

My vote is (proper vintage with yellow ) sunburst on a junior and TV on a special. 

Kittyfrisk

Misleading thread title.
I expected some discussion of these   

poopot

Hootsmon said:

does any one have a pic of a Junior with scratch plate and pick up removed?

And one being refinished... 

Kittyfrisk

Nice pics  

Genuine unrelated question. If lacquer cracking/crazing is considered to be caused by temperature variations, why doesn't this seem to extend to body cavities?

poopot

Kittyfrisk said:

Nice pics  

Genuine unrelated question. If lacquer cracking/crazing is considered to be caused by temperature variations, why doesn't this seem to extend to body cavities?

It does on the one above... prolly not picked up so well by the camera as it’s on a different plane to the face of the body and the lights catching it differently... but you can just see it.

paganskins

Kittyfrisk said:

Misleading thread title.I expected some discussion of these     

Me too, but I got excited about something like this: