Amp Necessary?

thegummy

Have any of you bass players played a gig where it wouldn't have been possible to continue if you didn't have a bass amp with you? Or at least would be a significant problem?

I.E. have you played a venue that weren't happy to take your bass DI (and had ample on-stage monitoring) or had a house bass amp in place?

AntonHunter

I don't really play bass much anymore, but this applies to the majority of pub covers gigs I've done. No house gear, and usually a small vocal PA without the low-end coverage needed, so needed my own amp.

Winny_Pooh

All places with their own PA setup can put you through monitors but a house amp is much preferred. When doing small venues/short sets in London I never took an amp. 

fretmeister

I've had a few refuse even when I had a good DI unit and a compressor with me. 1 place in Milton Keynes that had a PA system that could have been used at Wembley "No mate, it might damage it..."

Bollocks would it.

These days I've got a class D head and superlight weight Barefaced cabs so it's not a drag to take it with me.
A lot of Class D heads will run without a speaker so it can be used as just a posh DI, or the cab just for on stage monitoring

ICBM

thegummy said:

Have any of you bass players played a gig where it wouldn't have been possible to continue if you didn't have a bass amp with you? Or at least would be a significant problem?

I.E. have you played a venue that weren't happy to take your bass DI (and had ample on-stage monitoring) or had a house bass amp in place?

Yes, but only very small ones - mostly traditional pub gigs where the band brings the PA or where there’s a tiny house one, for vocals only with no subs.

Anywhere with a half-decent house PA - and as said above, where the soundman isn’t an idiot - I’ve come across that too - will be fine to put it through the PA. I do prefer an amp on stage, but a house bass amp is fine for me, I don’t care what it is as long as it works - the only time I’ve ever refused to use one was an old 60W 1x12” Carlsbro, and only because I would probably have blown it up.

maltingsaudio

From an engineers point of view, and assuming the house PA can take it, I much prefer to have the bass di’d and no bass amp on stage. 

ICBM

maltingsaudio said:

From an engineers point of view, and assuming the house PA can take it, I much prefer to have the bass di’d and no bass amp on stage. 

I understand why, but for me a bass amp on stage is quite necessary - I always feel it gives me more of a 'direct' response from my playing than a monitor does. I know there's no real technical reason this should be so, if the monitor hasn't got reverb or anything on the bass signal - but even more importantly, I use feedback sometimes and that really doesn't work well from a monitor... it's not even usually possible from an amp at sensible stage levels - I have to turn round and touch the cabinet with the headstock. I know that's a bit of a specialist requirement though .

Funkfingers

CAUTION: Not having a large boxy lump occupying the stage behind the bassist may confuse drummers.

https://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?60303-Geddy-Lee-s-washing-machines-Amps

DLM

@Funkfingers That is fantastic! 

althy

maltingsaudio said:

From an engineers point of view, and assuming the house PA can take it, I much prefer to have the bass di’d and no bass amp on stage. 

Also my experience. Most sound guys would rather not have to worry about amps for pop/ rock gigs.

I always play through a sansamp bass DI VT, that does simplify the live mix a lot and everyone's vocal performance ( the guitars and keys are ampless as well )

The instrument volume is  a tad quieter on stage but it sounds SO MUCH BETTER for both stage and front monitoring that there is no real reason not to do it.

Some drummers might complain because you know, drummers.

MattBanshee

Funkfingers said:

CAUTION: Not having a large boxy lump occupying the stage behind the bassist may confuse drummers.

https://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?60303-Geddy-Lee-s-washing-machines-Amps

Still holding the trophy for most embarrassingly grandad-like joke ever made.

(Edit: him, not you)

MattBanshee

I carry a DHA preamp-DI with me for when the sound engineer insists on a DI from the bass, but I always stipulate that the bass speaker should be miced on stage as the primary mix, and any DI signal (if at all) should be restricted to a blend for EQ reasons only.

ICBM

Just an anecdotal experience, but the last two gigs I played were at the same venue, with the same PA and the same sound engineer.

First time: Peavey TKO65 1x15" (house amp), mic'ed, no DI. I initially thought the Peavey would be grossly underpowered (the 65 is actual watts!), but in fact I had to turn it down a bit on stage.

Second time: Fender Rumble 100 (I think this was the other bassist's) as a monitor only - the Peavey was being used as a guitar combo stand - bass DI'd from before the amp. Stage level a bit lower than the first time.

The bass sound at the first gig was *vastly* better. Too much bass in the PA mix the second time, and it didn't sound right.

4string

Played last Friday DI'ed into the PA with no stage amp for the first time, sound monitoring via the stage wedge. Worked well, when I realised I had the instrument volume at 6 and knocked it up to 10. Whoops. I have had issues with stage amps before not seeming loud enough - I suspect this is a function of the way bass works on a noisy stage. I would DI again, but the pervious 13 gigs with this band have had a stage amp (usually Di'ed).

MattBanshee

4string said:

Played last Friday DI'ed into the PA with no stage amp for the first time, sound monitoring via the stage wedge. Worked well, when I realised I had the instrument volume at 6 and knocked it up to 10. Whoops. I have had issues with stage amps before not seeming loud enough - I suspect this is a function of the way bass works on a noisy stage. I would DI again, but the pervious 13 gigs with this band have had a stage amp (usually Di'ed).

This is why I carry a preamp DI. The amount of times I've been a couple of songs into a set, not been happy with the preamp gain or EQ and just been able to quickly tweak it on the amp means that I can't leave this in the hands of the engineer at the desk; I need to have the option to make adjustments on the fly.

4string

@MattBanshee ;Forgot to mention I have a Zoom B3 with eq, etc. with a DI socket. Friday was via the venues SansAmp pedal on the stage, so plenty of parameters to tweak.

thegummy

MattBanshee said:

I carry a DHA preamp-DI with me for when the sound engineer insists on a DI from the bass, but I always stipulate that the bass speaker should be miced on stage as the primary mix, and any DI signal (if at all) should be restricted to a blend for EQ reasons only.

I take it you must be in quite a big band to be able to make such demands?

MattBanshee

thegummy said:

MattBanshee said:

I carry a DHA preamp-DI with me for when the sound engineer insists on a DI from the bass, but I always stipulate that the bass speaker should be miced on stage as the primary mix, and any DI signal (if at all) should be restricted to a blend for EQ reasons only.

I take it you must be in quite a big band to be able to make such demands?

Nope, we play established venues with decent PA systems, experienced sound engineers (usually) and we always have a tech sheet forwarded to the promoters and venues in advance outlining our sound requirements, which, I'm sure almost every sound engineer will agree, saves a lot of time and messing about during soundchecks, and helps us all do our jobs more efficiently.

MattBanshee

4string said:

@MattBanshee ;Forgot to mention I have a Zoom B3 with eq, etc. with a DI socket. Friday was via the venues SansAmp pedal on the stage, so plenty of parameters to tweak.

The venue had a house Sansamp for DIing bass? Sounds like a well-equipped and well prepared place!

MattBanshee

Also, further discussion; my "big" bass amp is an Ampeg SVT450 into a Marshall 1x15 (I have a PF350 into a compact 1x12 for practice or when travelling light). I've played a couple of gigs in medium-sized venues where I've had the opportunity to put the SVT through an 8x10 or a stack of 2 cabs, and I've come to the conclusion that this usually makes things worse in terms of stage monitoring compared to a smaller cab. You have to have the amp volume so low as to not deafen yourself and drown out the monitor mix that the amp never has a chance to crunch up, and I find that it generally muddies things up in the stage sound.

althy

MattBanshee said:

Also, further discussion; my "big" bass amp is an Ampeg SVT450 into a Marshall 1x15 (I have a PF350 into a compact 1x12 for practice or when travelling light). I've played a couple of gigs in medium-sized venues where I've had the opportunity to put the SVT through an 8x10 or a stack of 2 cabs, and I've come to the conclusion that this usually makes things worse in terms of stage monitoring compared to a smaller cab. You have to have the amp volume so low as to not deafen yourself and drown out the monitor mix that the amp never has a chance to crunch up, and I find that it generally muddies things up in the stage sound.

I think it is very similar to most musicianss experience with using amps live in mid sized venues.
I have never heard a sound guy or a band member asking other members to turn up their amps. 
I have never done / seen a soundcheck where the sound guy doesn't ask the band to turn down their pricey tube amps.

Not to be insistant/redundant on that subject but after years playing live I truly believe the best way to get a sound you and the audience are happy with, or at least to minimise the chances that some external factor from elsewhere will spoil it, is to go ampless or using small amps. In nowadays venues configuration you're doing yourself and everyone involved a massive favor.

If you play in an arena I totally get that walls of amps but most people and even professional ones won't ever or hardly have the opportunity to ever crank their amp up live in their musical life.