Acoustic Shape/Wood Combo Recomendations

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I’m interested to know what body size and wood combo you would think would suit my needs to all experienced acoustic buyers out there :) 

I currently have a Maton 808 artist that i have had for about 10 years. I find it quite hard to hold as its so deep, I also recently got RSI in both arms. The guitar is very stiff sounding unplugged and not very exciting. Plugged in it sounds amazing. 

I’m after a much more resonant guitar that can be used for solo acoustic with percussion (Mike Dawes, Thomas Leeb, Eric Roche style) and also to work in  duo singer songwriter like Angus and Juliet and John Smith. 



What body shape would you lean towards me looking at?

Wood combos i’m keen to find out what you think Sitka or Cedar with a Walnut or Rosewood back and sides? 


In terms of builders, I'm looking at Lowden, Atkin and Fylde Guitars 



Thanks

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Comments

  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    I'd add Avalon to the list. They made all the Lowdens for 15 years until 2004, and the same luthiers at the same workshop will make custom guitars much cheaper than Lowden now charge.

    Typical woods:
    Rosewood/Spruce is the most common favourite
    You need to try a few combinations before eliminating that, it suits almost everyone
    I like cedar more than spruce

    Size: Auditorium or small, get a cutaway if you like. I get wider nuts, 46mm rather than 44mm, find out what you prefer.

    If you call Avalon directly, they can explain the options
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  • I have an acoustic-playing friend who has a shoulder injury which has resulted in him moving to auditorium-size guitars. He likes Fylde, and I've been impressed with every one that I've played. I've tried a couple of Lowden's too, which were also fine guitars.
    I agree with @ToneControl regarding contacting Avalon, and I would also contact other luthier's directly, including Turnstone. It's worth discussing your particular needs, and trying some guitars out before firming up your requirements. If you're playing in a duo, you may also need to consider pick-up options.
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    What’s the Matons dimensions?
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  • Andy79 said:
    What’s the Matons dimensions?

    Maton 808


    BODY LENGTH

    479 mm

    BODY WIDTH

    366 mm

    BODY DEPTH

    125 mm

    TOTAL LENGTH

    1009 mm


    Neck 

    12” radius 

    Nut Width 44.1mm

    14th Fret 55mm

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  • I'd add Avalon to the list. They made all the Lowdens for 15 years until 2004, and the same luthiers at the same workshop will make custom guitars much cheaper than Lowden now charge.

    Typical woods:
    Rosewood/Spruce is the most common favourite
    You need to try a few combinations before eliminating that, it suits almost everyone
    I like cedar more than spruce

    Size: Auditorium or small, get a cutaway if you like. I get wider nuts, 46mm rather than 44mm, find out what you prefer.

    If you call Avalon directly, they can explain the options
    Thanks so much! I have contacted Avalon so will wait to hear what they say.


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  • CarpeDiem said:
    I have an acoustic-playing friend who has a shoulder injury which has resulted in him moving to auditorium-size guitars. He likes Fylde, and I've been impressed with every one that I've played. I've tried a couple of Lowden's too, which were also fine guitars.
    I agree with @ToneControl regarding contacting Avalon, and I would also contact other luthier's directly, including Turnstone. It's worth discussing your particular needs, and trying some guitars out before firming up your requirements. If you're playing in a duo, you may also need to consider pick-up options.
    Lots of options. Fylde have been very quick at responding and very informative. I have never played one but like the sound. 

    Lowden I’m more familiar with. I definitely lean to a different acoustic sound (British) than American.

    here are the maton stats again

    Maton 808


    BODY LENGTH

    479 mm

    BODY WIDTH

    366 mm

    BODY DEPTH

    125 mm

    TOTAL LENGTH

    1009 mm


    Neck 

    12” radius 

    Nut Width 44.1mm

    14th Fret 55mm

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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    So your Maton is as deep as a dread and the size of a small OM, lower bout of a 00 sort of thing. 

    For the the sake of trying things out I would go try a Martin 0-18. They are a great benchmark. Lacking in bass obviously but they are so well balanced across bass mid and treble and they are loud. 

    if if I was custom building I would go Red spruce and Walnut with mahogany neck
     For me Cedar just isn’t responsive or loud enough on small guitars. 

    Again, all just my opinion and completely subjective 


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  • Andy79 said:
    So your Maton is as deep as a dread and the size of a small OM, lower bout of a 00 sort of thing. 

    For the the sake of trying things out I would go try a Martin 0-18. They are a great benchmark. Lacking in bass obviously but they are so well balanced across bass mid and treble and they are loud. 

    if if I was custom building I would go Red spruce and Walnut with mahogany neck
     For me Cedar just isn’t responsive or loud enough on small guitars. 

    Again, all just my opinion and completely subjective 


    One of these? https://youtu.be/9UJBmnP66RI
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    That’s the one
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  • Lowden's F series would work well for you particularly the F32C ( spruce / Indian rosewood ) Spruce has a bit more inherent stiffness, useful if you are into percussive styles.
    Regarding Fylde, they make some great guitars in many sizes and wood combos. Fyldes do have their own distinct sonic identity and are very much a European sound. I'm actually playing one right now as I was reading this. This one is a Custom Anniversary ( based on the Alexander model )in euro spruce and brazilian rosewood, before it I had a 30th anniversary in Sitka spruce/Indian rosewood. They share the same very open, harmonically rich traits, the current one being more full across the range. I've played many Fyldes and across the models they share great build quality and a certain sonic relationship.
    I don't know where you are based but you should also talk to Haydn Williams ( HJ Williams guitars ). He's not far up the road from Fylde and builds some of the best bespoke acoustics around, plus he knows a lot about wood choices.  I had an auditorium size guitar by Haydn which would have suited your type of styles very well (sadly it got nicked, though it did reappear 9 years later) can't remember what the model name was now. I currently have a lovely dread depth cutaway by him ( An Esk ) with a German top over Honduran rosewood, it is ridiculously responsive and a lot of overtones. The latter would be too big for you but check out his site for the smaller models or give him a call, he's a great guy to deal with.

    Hope this helps
    All the best with the search
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  • artiebear said:
    Lowden's F series would work well for you particularly the F32C ( spruce / Indian rosewood ) Spruce has a bit more inherent stiffness, useful if you are into percussive styles.
    Regarding Fylde, they make some great guitars in many sizes and wood combos. Fyldes do have their own distinct sonic identity and are very much a European sound. I'm actually playing one right now as I was reading this. This one is a Custom Anniversary ( based on the Alexander model )in euro spruce and brazilian rosewood, before it I had a 30th anniversary in Sitka spruce/Indian rosewood. They share the same very open, harmonically rich traits, the current one being more full across the range. I've played many Fyldes and across the models they share great build quality and a certain sonic relationship.
    I don't know where you are based but you should also talk to Haydn Williams ( HJ Williams guitars ). He's not far up the road from Fylde and builds some of the best bespoke acoustics around, plus he knows a lot about wood choices.  I had an auditorium size guitar by Haydn which would have suited your type of styles very well (sadly it got nicked, though it did reappear 9 years later) can't remember what the model name was now. I currently have a lovely dread depth cutaway by him ( An Esk ) with a German top over Honduran rosewood, it is ridiculously responsive and a lot of overtones. The latter would be too big for you but check out his site for the smaller models or give him a call, he's a great guy to deal with.

    Hope this helps
    All the best with the search
    Wow you have some great guitars! Fylde Alexander with Brazillain Rosewood and euro spruce is the dream. How did the spruce/indian rosewood compare?

    Do you feel the Alexander would suit my needs?

    Where are your based? I'm in the south near Brighton. There aren't many Fyldes to try around :(

     
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  • artiebear said:
    Lowden's F series would work well for you particularly the F32C ( spruce / Indian rosewood ) Spruce has a bit more inherent stiffness, useful if you are into percussive styles.
    Regarding Fylde, they make some great guitars in many sizes and wood combos. Fyldes do have their own distinct sonic identity and are very much a European sound. I'm actually playing one right now as I was reading this. This one is a Custom Anniversary ( based on the Alexander model )in euro spruce and brazilian rosewood, before it I had a 30th anniversary in Sitka spruce/Indian rosewood. They share the same very open, harmonically rich traits, the current one being more full across the range. I've played many Fyldes and across the models they share great build quality and a certain sonic relationship.
    I don't know where you are based but you should also talk to Haydn Williams ( HJ Williams guitars ). He's not far up the road from Fylde and builds some of the best bespoke acoustics around, plus he knows a lot about wood choices.  I had an auditorium size guitar by Haydn which would have suited your type of styles very well (sadly it got nicked, though it did reappear 9 years later) can't remember what the model name was now. I currently have a lovely dread depth cutaway by him ( An Esk ) with a German top over Honduran rosewood, it is ridiculously responsive and a lot of overtones. The latter would be too big for you but check out his site for the smaller models or give him a call, he's a great guy to deal with.

    Hope this helps
    All the best with the search
    Wow you have some great guitars! Fylde Alexander with Brazillain Rosewood and euro spruce is the dream. How did the spruce/indian rosewood compare?

    Do you feel the Alexander would suit my needs?

    Where are your based? I'm in the south near Brighton. There aren't many Fyldes to try around :(

     
    The Indian rosewood / Sitka guitar was very rich and expressive but maybe a little less defined when compared to the brasilian version.

    The Alexander is a great body size being more compact than an OM, while being 4 1/4 " deep, enough to have plenty of bass without being full dreadnought depth. There are a couple of things worth considering, the basic model is cedar over sapele which will sound warm but a little drier/more immediate than spruce over rosewood and will have less headroom. It would be worth enquiring what the options are as Fylde are great at custom builds based on existing designs. Also check out the Alchemist which is essentially a cutaway version.
    The closest production Fylde to a spruce / rosewood version is the Eric Bibb signature model ( he had one of the other 6 original anniversary models that I had previously . The big issue there is that it's quite a price hike  as it has a bit more bling as well as the spruce /rosewood spec. The Bibb is also 25 1/2 scale length while the Alexander and the Alchemist are 24 3/4 scale length. Personally I really like the latter on this particular guitar, it down tunes great, but plays really easily.
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  • artiebearartiebear Frets: 810
    edited December 2019
    A few quick shots of my Fylde Custom Anniversary

    Euro spruce top
    Brazilian rosewood back and sides
    Ebony Board / Pearl inlay
    Koa binding
    5 piece neck figured mahogany and can't remember the other wood.
    Multi coloured herringbone
    24 3/4 scale length
    44mm nut

    <a href="https://imgur.com/qiI9U32"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/qiI9U32.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

    <a href="https://imgur.com/wAe9WTE"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/wAe9WTE.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

    <a href="https://imgur.com/UotQ2OP"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/UotQ2OP.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

    <a href="https://imgur.com/3jgH8tQ"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/3jgH8tQ.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>


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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 18381
    ^  That is a thing of loveliness. If ever a guitar deserved to be played back to front just for the visual beauty of the wood, that's it  :+1: 
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    artiebear said:
    Lowden's F series would work well for you particularly the F32C ( spruce / Indian rosewood ) Spruce has a bit more inherent stiffness, useful if you are into percussive styles.
    Regarding Fylde, they make some great guitars in many sizes and wood combos. Fyldes do have their own distinct sonic identity and are very much a European sound. I'm actually playing one right now as I was reading this. This one is a Custom Anniversary ( based on the Alexander model )in euro spruce and brazilian rosewood, before it I had a 30th anniversary in Sitka spruce/Indian rosewood. They share the same very open, harmonically rich traits, the current one being more full across the range. I've played many Fyldes and across the models they share great build quality and a certain sonic relationship.
    I don't know where you are based but you should also talk to Haydn Williams ( HJ Williams guitars ). He's not far up the road from Fylde and builds some of the best bespoke acoustics around, plus he knows a lot about wood choices.  I had an auditorium size guitar by Haydn which would have suited your type of styles very well (sadly it got nicked, though it did reappear 9 years later) can't remember what the model name was now. I currently have a lovely dread depth cutaway by him ( An Esk ) with a German top over Honduran rosewood, it is ridiculously responsive and a lot of overtones. The latter would be too big for you but check out his site for the smaller models or give him a call, he's a great guy to deal with.

    Hope this helps
    All the best with the search
    Wow you have some great guitars! Fylde Alexander with Brazillain Rosewood and euro spruce is the dream. How did the spruce/indian rosewood compare?

    Do you feel the Alexander would suit my needs?

    Where are your based? I'm in the south near Brighton. There aren't many Fyldes to try around :(

     
    firstly - if near Brighton, make sure you have tried the guitars in the Acoustic music co shop

    secondly, Braz is great, but there are other impressive woods up there for far less money: African Blackwood, Ziricote, Bog oak, etc
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    Andy79 said:
    So your Maton is as deep as a dread and the size of a small OM, lower bout of a 00 sort of thing. 

    For the the sake of trying things out I would go try a Martin 0-18. They are a great benchmark. Lacking in bass obviously but they are so well balanced across bass mid and treble and they are loud. 

    if if I was custom building I would go Red spruce and Walnut with mahogany neck
     For me Cedar just isn’t responsive or loud enough on small guitars. 

    Again, all just my opinion and completely subjective 


    probably depends on the guitar, classicals are mostly small bodied cedar and can be very loud
    Redwood is supposed to be cedar on steroids, and my small-bodied redwood + Ziricote was the loudest acoustic I own last time I checked, alongside a  Braz/Adirondack Dread!

    Bear in mind you can get louder sounds with a plectrum, but that cedar is as loud when fingerpicking
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  • I have read also that redwood tonally sits between cedar and spruce so this seems like the perfect top for me :)

    then a rosewood or walnut for the back. 


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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    I have read also that redwood tonally sits between cedar and spruce so this seems like the perfect top for me :)

    then a rosewood or walnut for the back. 


    hmm, I have 2 redwood tops, I'd say cedar was between redwood and spruce, where did you read that it was the other way round?
    Some quotes I found said that redwood was "cedar on steroids", which i can understand: it's warmer, more mids, louder

    Both the redwood guitars have very powerful mids, more so than any of my other guitars:
    I use Elixir phosphor bronze nanoweb strings, and often leave the strings on for a few months, with no huge detriment to my ears
    With the redwood tops, the top end is overwhelmed by the mids after 3-4 weeks, I'm currently trying 80/20 bronze on one of them.

    Having said this, both my redwood tops have ziricote back and sides, not rosewood.

    I had a walnut / adirondack Bourgeois DS-260 once, it was much too bright for me, who is recommending walnut?

    At present, the best idea I can think of is that you try lots of similar instruments made with different woods. AFAIK in the UK that's easiest at one of the Lowden stockists, they have 50-60 guitars in a wide range of woods.

    btw I read a recent interview with George Lowden, who said his favourite woods a guitar for himself now are African blackwood with redwood. African blackwood is supposed to be the nearest current wood to BRW.

    Avalon recommend Ziricote and Bog Oak as the "best sounding" B+S woods.
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    Don’t dismiss torrified tops. I know that long term we don’t know how it will pan out as it’s kinda new for soundboards but all the torrified guitars I have tried (apart from Ibanez, mainly I think, due to being way over built) have been noticeably improved by the process.
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  • I have read also that redwood tonally sits between cedar and spruce so this seems like the perfect top for me :)

    then a rosewood or walnut for the back. 


    hmm, I have 2 redwood tops, I'd say cedar was between redwood and spruce, where did you read that it was the other way round?
    Some quotes I found said that redwood was "cedar on steroids", which i can understand: it's warmer, more mids, louder

    Both the redwood guitars have very powerful mids, more so than any of my other guitars:
    I use Elixir phosphor bronze nanoweb strings, and often leave the strings on for a few months, with no huge detriment to my ears
    With the redwood tops, the top end is overwhelmed by the mids after 3-4 weeks, I'm currently trying 80/20 bronze on one of them.

    Having said this, both my redwood tops have ziricote back and sides, not rosewood.

    I had a walnut / adirondack Bourgeois DS-260 once, it was much too bright for me, who is recommending walnut?

    At present, the best idea I can think of is that you try lots of similar instruments made with different woods. AFAIK in the UK that's easiest at one of the Lowden stockists, they have 50-60 guitars in a wide range of woods.

    btw I read a recent interview with George Lowden, who said his favourite woods a guitar for himself now are African blackwood with redwood. African blackwood is supposed to be the nearest current wood to BRW.

    Avalon recommend Ziricote and Bog Oak as the "best sounding" B+S woods.
    A couple of guitar shops have said redwood is in the middle and would suit solo playing and working with singers. These where with Lowden Guitars in mind. So redwood with rosewood,

    also cedar and walnut for clarity and warmth is another good choice? 

    I have liked the sound of lowden bog oak with lutz spruce
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