Flying V build

greggreg66

15 years ago I bought plans for a Flying V on eBay, thinking that I'd like to make a guitar. I opened them, panicked because I had no skills or tools, put them in a filing cabinet and forgot about them. Until this week. I now work as a furniture maker and have all the tools I need (at least the machinery), but am highly likely still lacking in the skills department. Like most people I will struggle to find time once we go back to work after the Christmas break, but I'm hoping I can still persevere and get it done. 

I don't intend to follow the plans precisely as I'm not fussed about it being a faithful '58 V replica, but we'll see. For instance I might go with P90s and a wrap around bridge. I started by making wooden templates from the printed plans. I'm going to remake the neck plans as I'm going to try and copy the neck from my '59 junior, which is lovely. 


Me finding the plans after 15 years!

Making the wooden templates:

greggreg66

I brought my Junior into workshop so I could pop the hood and have a look at the neck tenon to measure the total neck length ahead of planing up my neck blank:


Guard removed:


Close-up:


Cutting the scarfed headstock on the table saw:


This was cut at a 13.5° angle:


And gluing it up (after sanding the scarf joint faces flat / square). I also glue on an extra piece to build up the tenon:


Gluing up the body blank. I planed this to 38mm as stated on the plans. I measured the thickness of my junior, which was 45mm thick. I thought that I'd stick with the plans though. The neck & body are from sapele, mostly because I have lots of it in the workshop and this piece has been kicking around for a good 18 months:



My main concern is that as it's so cold the glue is going white rather than curing clear, so I'm naturally paranoid that it's not setting to full strength. I'll see how it feels in a few days and decide whether I'll redo this all again!

That's it for now

SteveRobinson

greggreg66 said:

Making the wooden templates:

Is Bono assisting?

Cool project, following!

greggreg66

SteveRobinson said:

greggreg66 said:

Making the wooden templates:

Is Bono assisting?

Cool project, following!

Ha! He had to take them off as he couldn't find what he was looking for 

Kalimna

Excellent project!
One note of caution - if the glue you are using is Titebond or simillar, and is drying white whilst being a bit cold, then it *will not* have proper strength. I would *absolutely* recommend redoing those joints, and gluing inside rather than a cold workshop. A pain, but much much better than a failed joint down the line.

Adam

greggreg66

Kalimna said:

Excellent project!
One note of caution - if the glue you are using is Titebond or simillar, and is drying white whilst being a bit cold, then it *will not* have proper strength. I would *absolutely* recommend redoing those joints, and gluing inside rather than a cold workshop. A pain, but much much better than a failed joint down the line.

Adam

Yes it's a D4 type white glue. Was looking it up earlier when I got a bit paranoid about it! Looked at the data sheet just now and it said <10*C for application. I'm wondering whether I re-machine everything at the workshop and take it home for gluing. A bit arduous but worth it in the long run as you say. 

I'm also half tempted to machine up a new body blank at 45mm thick as the more I look online the more I see that the original ones were that thick. I made this one at 38mm as per plans. 

greggreg66

* I meant >10°C !!

CeeJay

Aye, keep them coming. I may not comment as my luthier skills could be listed on the back of a postage stamp, but rest assured, I will enjoy the read.

greggreg66

Kalimna said:

Excellent project!
One note of caution - if the glue you are using is Titebond or simillar, and is drying white whilst being a bit cold, then it *will not* have proper strength. I would *absolutely* recommend redoing those joints, and gluing inside rather than a cold workshop. A pain, but much much better than a failed joint down the line.

Adam

I do have UF Resin glue in the workshop that I could use instead of the D4. I believe that would be okay temperature wise, but not sure if it's quite as good in the long run for the scarfed neck and body blank glue up?

greggreg66

CeeJay said:

Aye, keep them coming. I may not comment as my luthier skills could be listed on the back of a postage stamp, but rest assured, I will enjoy the read.

Thanks, will try my best! Looks like the next posts will be me re-doing today's work 

Kalimna

UF resin - is that pretty much Cascamite? Should work fine for a body blank. Dries very hard, and no creep as far as I can remember. Long open time too, if that is a concern (but I suspect you know that).
D4 I am guessing behaves similar to Titebond  (Ive used D4, but not too familliar with it). The joint may be fine, but for peace of mind i think it would be worth re-jointing. I have learnt that the hard way. If i am gluing up anything in the winter (I live in central Scotland), i bring it into the kitchen from the garage/workshop to warm up before gluing.
White, chalky PVA glue does not a strong join make.

Adam

greggreg66

Yes I think they're about the same. Haven't actually used Cascamite before, but looking it up it says it's UF resin. The one I have is Adkwik Prefere 4152, which I use for veneering. It's mixed differently to Cascamite in that you have (liquid) adhesive + powdered hardener vs Cascamite which is powder + water? 

However, I think I might just prepare all the joints in the workshop then bring them home for gluing, somehow feels easier albeit a longer way round. 

Must admit I kind of hate these indecisions of which glue to use! Most of the time I think most glues will be fine (temperature aside). I use a lot of 5min PU glue at work and that holds up remarkably well.

Danielsguitars

I use cascamite to glue caps on, it goes rock hard and crystalline, there's no way that'll ever come off in a hurry

Working in winter is a big pita if you ask me, that's one good thing about hot hide glue it's warmed up along with the joint, I use it on fretboards and neck joints, summer has it's problems too but I can live with them

Kalimna

Danielsguitars said:

I use cascamite to glue caps on, it goes rock hard and crystalline, there's no way that'll ever come off in a hurry

Working in winter is a big pita if you ask me, that's one good thing about hot hide glue it's warmed up along with the joint, I use it on fretboards and neck joints, summer has it's problems too but I can live with them

Out of interest, other than a situation where you *may* want to separate the join (say, fretboard or neck), is there a downside to using UF resin? Of course, it has to be mixed, and can dull edge tools, but other than that?

And am i correct in that these glues were developed during the production of DH Mosquito aircraft? 

Adam

greggreg66

Had to Google that fact, don't think Wikipedia agrees!

Nipped into the workshop this morning and the glue joint failed under stress. I took a very very small amount of wood with it, but it was the glue that failed. I thought it was okay at first, but a bit of pressure the wrong way and it went.

Haven't got much time today to re-glue, but hopefully I'll get it done over the weekend. 

I do have a chunky piece of sapele that I could do a one piece neck (exc fretboard of course), but I just like the idea of the scarfed neck

greggreg66

Danielsguitars said:

I use cascamite to glue caps on, it goes rock hard and crystalline, there's no way that'll ever come off in a hurry

Working in winter is a big pita if you ask me, that's one good thing about hot hide glue it's warmed up along with the joint, I use it on fretboards and neck joints, summer has it's problems too but I can live with them

What do you think about it using it for a scarfed headstock?

Kalimna

Yep, you're quite correct. Although both are UF resins, it was 'Aerolite' and not cascamite that was used by DeHavilland. Aerolite being a 2 part resin, and Cascamite powder plus water.
I imagine it would be fine for a scarf joint too.

Adam

JayGee

greggreg66 said:

I'm also half tempted to machine up a new body blank at 45mm thick as the more I look online the more I see that the original ones were that thick. I made this one at 38mm as per plans. 

Or you could stick with the 38mm body and add 7mm or so of something pretty on top. :-)

 

Jock68

If you intend to build it like a 58 then you will need a thicker body to get the neck all the way down under the scratch plate.  The original neck formed the piece between the pickups, it went that deep.

greggreg66

Yeah it looks like I needed a thicker body if it’s to be more original. Annoying as the stupid plans say 38mm! Should have gone with my hunch and made it 45mm like my junior. 

No dramas though, I’m going to persist and carry on with 38mm. In all likelihood as it’s my first build it won’t be great so I will consider this a good practice. I’m sure the first stab at the tenon will be shoddy anyway lol 

Everything now in clamps gluing with UF Resin glue. Will give it a good prod tomorrow to see if it’s glued strong enough

Mark1960

Reading with interest as i have just assembled a kit myself (not a build from scratch like this though)