Flying V build

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  • * I'm not against making a new neck if this is ruined. It's always going to be a learning curve on your first go!
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    edited January 2020 tFB Trader
    Thanks Neil..... I was just looking at your build pics to see what you used and saw you had one of those!

    I'd imagine it's holding it off the bottom of the channel a touch yes. 

    I also have another bit anxiety setting in which is that my plans called for the washer to go against where the nut goes, but I've suddenly come to realise that this highly likely isn't right and should sit further up the headstock as you have done. 

    Its a godsend when you are doing quite a few of them, bit of an outlay just for one. I think I did my first one with a router with a domed bit but, as you've seen, a curved gouge would do the job too.

    It's always a seat of the pants job doing the access hole as its SO close to the back of the neck, its about 3mm on a vintage Gibson, hence why it's a weak spot.
     
    The main issue I could foresee with pushing the rod up is that if the rod isn't good and tight (i.e. pulling the neck out of relief) and is loose, it's going to rattle in the slot.

    It needs to be nice and tight on the bottom of the channel. Also, you only need a 2mm difference in a straight channel, that might give you a little extra at the headstock end :)


    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • It's a very snug fit within the walls of the channel so I don't see the rattle as too much of an issue, but I will admit it was on my mind. It's probably only raised by about 1mm at best - it looks more but there was some clearance to start with so it's only minor.

    I have a 4mm depth difference across the length of the slot. My plans called for the slot to be deeper at the head and shallower at the tenon end, whereas a series of films I'm watching by Freddy's Frets shows him doing it the other way round. Interestingly he also does a straight, angled channel but glues his truss rod in very tight. 

    I will go in tomorrow and tighten the truss rod and see what happens. 

    Do you think that I've wrecked it anyway but having the washer right at where the nut goes? (be honest!)

    Thanks so much again for help!!
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    edited January 2020 tFB Trader
    If there's any play, especially up or down then it'll rattle unfortunately....they need to be in nice and tight to stop rattle and, more crucially, to work correctly.

    There is a trick to get over it though which can be used on older guitars that develop a rattle in the rod to avoid major surgery and that's to take the nut and washer off and thread a guitar string (thickness depending on the severity of the rattle) underneath the rod to take up the slack.

    I'd take those plans...and file them in the bin...they are giving you more trouble than they are worth!  

    You definitely want the shallow end of the channel at the headstock end otherwise it'll make a weak point even weaker.

    If the rod is ok in the channel, then i'd just look at taking a little more material out from under the nut so you can get a truss rod wrench on there, i'd measure the depth of the access against the total depth of the headstock first though to see how much room you have to play with  
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    I like Vs and see one in my future.

    Good enough for Tom, good enough for me.


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  • Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
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  • pmbomb said:
    I like Vs and see one in my future.

    Good enough for Tom, good enough for me.


    Awesome
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so... :(
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • IvisonGuitars said:
    Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so... :(
    Ah bums : (
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    edited January 2020 tFB Trader
    IvisonGuitars said:
    Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so...
    Ah bums : (
    If it's any consolation, I've binned a few necks over time, one not long ago in fact, just not concentrating. Be sure to salvage the rod though, always useful  
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • IvisonGuitars said:
    Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so... :(
    Ah bums : (
    If it's any consolation, I've binned a few necks over time, one not long ago in fact, just not concentrating. Be sure to savage the rod though, always useful :) 
    It happens. We make better furniture than guitar, honest!!!

    What will make you laugh, is that I cut the truss rod down according to the plans.... which had the truss rod end not in the main heel, but in the thinner part. It was another thing that felt kinda wrong, but I went with it. So maybe I'll bin the lot.

    If I end up actually binning it I'll test the scarf joint to destruction to really test that resin glue joint.  
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  • Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so... :(
    I've found a nice bit of extra detail online for single action rods with straight tapered channels, that the channel needs to cross the centreline of the neck. So by the nut it could be above the centreline (I appreciate it needs to be below the face of the headstock of course!) but by the heel needs to buried down below the centreline. I'm sure you know this, but it's a revelation to me. 

    Will be posting again soon once I've come back from going back to square one again :)
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    Cheers Neil.

    I think the plans definitely need to be binned. They've been wrong a couple of times now! 

    If the truss rod definitely needs to be deeper at the tenon end then I'll most likely need to remake it all as I've done it the other way round. 
    Fraid so... :(
    I've found a nice bit of extra detail online for single action rods with straight tapered channels, that the channel needs to cross the centreline of the neck. So by the nut it could be above the centreline (I appreciate it needs to be below the face of the headstock of course!) but by the heel needs to buried down below the centreline. I'm sure you know this, but it's a revelation to me. 

    Will be posting again soon once I've come back from going back to square one again :)
    Not sure I understand this Greg..? Sounds like more complication if i'm honest...

    Basically all you need to do and how I do it is mark a centerline on the neck blank, cut/route a straight channel 13mm deep at the headstock to 15mm deep at the truss rod anchor, cut for your access, insert your rod (you only need a couple of threads showing above the nut here) then glue your filler strip in and clamp down nice and snug. That's pretty much all there is to it :) 

    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • Yeah I’m probably over thinking this
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    If you find the rod is loose I'd suggest getting the fretboard on then tweak the rod to tighten it and it'll introduce some back bow then reflat the fretboard, you need tension on that rod imo

    When I do my nut recess I do it so the washer is sitting just below flush with the headstock if you have a veneer, it leaves more wood underneath which is stronger, a junior is slightly different but still just deep enough, I just use a spot facer and truss rod as a pilot then shim the rod up a tad, obviously I've had a fair bit of practice so find your own way that suits you
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • If you find the rod is loose I'd suggest getting the fretboard on then tweak the rod to tighten it and it'll introduce some back bow then reflat the fretboard, you need tension on that rod imo

    When I do my nut recess I do it so the washer is sitting just below flush with the headstock if you have a veneer, it leaves more wood underneath which is stronger, a junior is slightly different but still just deep enough, I just use a spot facer and truss rod as a pilot then shim the rod up a tad, obviously I've had a fair bit of practice so find your own way that suits you
    Thanks! My biggest concerns are the truss rod channel being angled the wrong way (I’m deeper at nut, shallower at the heel) and also not enough distance between the washer and the nut - I’m right on it. 


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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    If you find the rod is loose I'd suggest getting the fretboard on then tweak the rod to tighten it and it'll introduce some back bow then reflat the fretboard, you need tension on that rod imo

    When I do my nut recess I do it so the washer is sitting just below flush with the headstock if you have a veneer, it leaves more wood underneath which is stronger, a junior is slightly different but still just deep enough, I just use a spot facer and truss rod as a pilot then shim the rod up a tad, obviously I've had a fair bit of practice so find your own way that suits you
    Thanks! My biggest concerns are the truss rod channel being angled the wrong way (I’m deeper at nut, shallower at the heel) and also not enough distance between the washer and the nut - I’m right on it. 


    As long as you get the fretboard pulled down a tad by the nut and re flat the board you'll be ok, these rods are a bit of a learning curve, some people say they're not effective etc, just nonsense it's knowing what to do to make sure it works, the tweak is my insurance and acts like a 2 way 
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • greggreg66greggreg66 Frets: 495
    edited January 2020
    I think in the interests of doing a neat job I'm going to go with a 2-way rod. I like the single action, but until I can satisfy the neat access hole I'll go with a 2-way rod. I did do a demo with a pocket hole jig which was perfect.... but the drill bit not wide enough haha!

    The old neck is bin fodder. 

    Had a look on my timber rack and found a decent size piece of quarter sawn sapele so have made a new one-piece neck. 

    Onwards and upwards. But maybe with more patience this time
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  • greggreg66greggreg66 Frets: 495
    edited January 2020
    Boring post update.. not much more going on while I wait for parts to arrive, so I made the fretboard radius block. For ease of build I went with a 300mm radius, which is the same diameter as the table saw blade. I planed up a piece of oak and ran it over the saw, perpendicular to the blade, which was one of my friends suggestions. It's fairly close to 12".... I will have to see how it works with the pre-bent frets I've bought, hopefully it'll be okay. 

    EDIT; YES THIS IS WRONG   =)


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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    ^^ that's a really good idea!  Logged in the memory banks for when I might need it one day...

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