Toilet Flush Weird Issue

What's Hot
I have discovered that when I put my Washer on, the Toilet Flush upstairs starts to trickle very slightly into the bowl. If I flush it, the problem stops, but will start again when the washer does it's second fill up etc. It doesn't happen when I turn on Shower or any other taps which leads me to think it's not a pressure anomaly.

It's only started happening recently, but I do notice that when the water feed to the washer turns on and off, it's very abrupt, sharp on/off and is quite loud to hear from upstairs (always has been though), so wondered if it's a vibration issue that a part in the flush has succumb to over time. I'd say the washer water feed is not directly below where my Shower Room is, but not too far off.

It's one of those Tiled in Geberit Dual Flush efforts. I can't seem to be able to get the flush plate off, not that I want to mess with it anyway.

It's not that big a problem as of now, but I'm curious what's caused it and obviously would rather it didn't get to be a bigger problem.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
Only a Fool Would Say That.
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
«1

Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    edited January 2020
    That's hydraulic hammer from the washing machine valve closing, going back up the pipes and slightly opening a not-quite-perfect ball valve seal.

    You probably need a new washer in the ball valve, it will have hardened over time and not be flexible enough to ride out the pressure surge.

    You may be able to fix it by adjusting the ball a bit lower, so there's a bit more force against the washer when the toilet tank is full.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 2reaction image Wow! 4reaction image Wisdom
  • DdiggerDdigger Frets: 2335
    And I thought you were just an amp guru but you are also a plumber/hydraulics guru too! 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    Ddigger said:
    And I thought you were just an amp guru but you are also a plumber/hydraulics guru too! 
    Not really. I just have exactly the same problem!

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    3reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    ICBM said:
    That's hydraulic hammer from the washing machine valve closing, going back up the pipes and slightly opening a not-quite-perfect ball valve seal.

    You probably need a new washer in the ball valve, it will have hardened over time and not be flexible enough to ride out the pressure surge.

    You may be able to fix it by adjusting the ball a bit lower, so there's a bit more force against the washer when the toilet tank is full.

    This guy knows his valves ;)
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
    18reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    ICBM said:

    You may be able to fix it by adjusting the ball a bit lower, so there's a bit more force against the washer when the toilet tank is full.

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    LastMantra said:

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    It would if the washer was in good condition, but since the valve isn't shutting off completely the water level will continue to rise, so the ball will become more submerged and the buoyancy force will increase. At least, it worked on mine...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • randellarandella Frets: 4086
    ICBM said:

    You may be able to fix it by adjusting the ball a bit lower, so there's a bit more force against the washer when the toilet tank is full.

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    It does that too, but it can also work.  I've done it a couple of times.

    I have a problem similar to the OP, in the ensuite which is surprisingly irritating.  Mine needs a new flusher though which is a monumental pain because, as far as I can tell, it involves lifting the cistern off the pan.  Which, in turn, involves putting it back.  Which involves plumber's mait.

    And anyone who's ever been near plumber's mait knows it's the single most vile substance on God's green earth.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    edited January 2020
    ICBM said:
    LastMantra said:

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    It would if the washer was in good condition, but since the valve isn't shutting off completely the water level will continue to rise, so the ball will become more submerged and the buoyancy force will increase. At least, it worked on mine...

    Don't see how lowering the ball would make that any different. The water level would just be slightly lower when it happens. But if it worked it worked.

    I've just replaced a washer too (well the whole internal dooda).
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    ICBM said:
    LastMantra said:

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    It would if the washer was in good condition, but since the valve isn't shutting off completely the water level will continue to rise, so the ball will become more submerged and the buoyancy force will increase. At least, it worked on mine...

    Don't see how lowering the ball would make that any different. But if it worked it worked.

    I've just replaced a washer too (well the whole internal dooda).
    Lowering the ball will mean more of it is submerged when the cistern is full so the force closing the float valve will be greater. It's only a temporary fix though if the washer is worn. 

    The washer can often be reversed though

    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    LastMantra said:

    Don't see how lowering the ball would make that any different. The water level would just be slightly lower when it happens.
    If the washer was in good condition and sealing as soon as it makes contact, you would be right... but the problem is that it isn't :). So the water level will continue to rise and the ball will go from being floating fairly lightly on the surface to more deeply submerged and produce more upward force, until the valve does close.

    You're only in trouble if the ball is completely submerged before the valve closes fully ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    edited January 2020
    strtdv said:
    ICBM said:
    LastMantra said:

    Would that not just make it shut off earlier? 
    It would if the washer was in good condition, but since the valve isn't shutting off completely the water level will continue to rise, so the ball will become more submerged and the buoyancy force will increase. At least, it worked on mine...

    Don't see how lowering the ball would make that any different. But if it worked it worked.

    I've just replaced a washer too (well the whole internal dooda).
    Lowering the ball will mean more of it is submerged when the cistern is full so the force closing the float valve will be greater. It's only a temporary fix though if the washer is worn. 

    The washer can often be reversed though


    Only if it's hitting the overflow before the ball has gone up as far as it can. Which it shouldn't be anywhere near. It's the ball that determines when the tank is "full".
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    If the overflow is working you're still not in trouble
    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Thanks @ICBM for putting a name to that issue. Thanks everyone else too. I best not do anything with it, my cack-handedness will fuck something up. I can't even get the flush cover plate off.

    Is it possible to work on this issue without someone having to smash the tiles to get to the problem? Can it just be approached by taking the cover plate off. Seems daft to have this type of "in wall" system if it means destruction if anything goes wrong.

    I might leave it for now anyway. I never have the Washing Machine on when I'm not in and as I'm washing whilst I'm in, I can just stop the trickle by flushing.

    Probably best to keep aware of the situation though.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    I reckon its just the water pressure drop when the WM is sucking loads of water, the cistern valve relies on the incoming pressure to maintain the seal on the washer, lower the pressure, seal gives a bit, lets water in....result overflow into the pan.


    Mac Mini M1
    Presonus Studio One V5
     https://www.studiowear.co.uk/ -
     https://twitter.com/spark240
     Facebook - m.me/studiowear.co.uk
    Reddit r/newmusicreview 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951

    Is it possible to work on this issue without someone having to smash the tiles to get to the problem? Can it just be approached by taking the cover plate off. Seems daft to have this type of "in wall" system if it means destruction if anything goes wrong.
    If you think you can't get into it you need to find a way - it's never a good idea to have stuff like this sealed up where you can't get at it. You should be able to get the cover plate off I think.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • If the flush plate is round just push your fingers down against it and turn anti clockwise. It should unscrew. Cistern lid should then lift off, unless it's all boxed in.

    The person above who hates plumber's mait should work on a stink pipe. After that plumber's mait is playtime.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • This is the offending item @shrinkwrap ;

    https://i.imgur.com/Y89TZtX.jpg

    I think it's supposed to slide upwards. It has been off before, but before this issue started.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    edited January 2020
    ICBM said:
    LastMantra said:

    Don't see how lowering the ball would make that any different. The water level would just be slightly lower when it happens.
    If the washer was in good condition and sealing as soon as it makes contact, you would be right... but the problem is that it isn't . So the water level will continue to rise and the ball will go from being floating fairly lightly on the surface to more deeply submerged and produce more upward force, until the valve does close.

    Yeah but lowering the ball will just make the exact same thing happened a bit earlier. The ball will float the same the valve will work/not work the same the water level will just be a bit lower in the tank. If there is a leak the ball will still become submerged in the same fashion regardless of hight.

    A ball floats the same and works the valve the same in 8 inches of water as it does in 6 inches of water 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • pumkinpumkin Frets: 135
    I’ve come across this problem once in over 20 years of plumbing... it was a few years back but from memory the conclusion was ,as others have stated  @ICBM ; and @spark240 , that the pressure drop when the washing machine was  drawing water  was causing the float valve to let by for moments resulting in the cistern eventually overflowing .... I’m still not 100% convinced but I changed the complete  float valve and it sorted it .... changing just the washer would probably have done the same .
    @Bellycaster you should be able to service that float valve  simply by taking off the front panel .... Gerberit designed it that way ... and the float valve is easy to take out ..it’s all accessible. The cover  plate comes off by pushing the cover up or down, down I think , by a few mm  and then it pops off . 
    Enough plumbing talk ... I’ve got some rock n roll to play  :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    Same but similar
    when shower is on upstairs, kitchen tap drips; doesn’t do it any other time
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.