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Formulas for structuring solos

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robertyroberty Frets: 10893
Say you've got 8 bars in a song to melt people's faces off. 8 bars is not a long time to develop ideas or get into the zone. Are there any typical formulas for structuring a short improvised solo for maximum face melting potential?

I am vaguely aware that you should start low register and end in a high one. I guess a widdly but would go in somewhere

I appreciate that there are no hard and fast rules but I'm wondering if there are any shortcuts.  I am crap at it although my technique is quite good.  Instead of saying "YES!" my solos tend to go "hmm..."
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Comments

  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    I'm sure there will be people that say yes but personally I don't think about formula or any kind of theory. I just let rip. If it feels good to me I guess it'll sound decent to others.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    LastMantra said:
    I'm sure there will be people that say yes but personally I don't think about formula or any kind of theory. I just let rip. If it feels good to me I guess it'll sound decent to others.

    I’d sort of agree with that, especially for 8 bars - I guess the only thing is there’s a risk you’d just be rehashing stuff that feels comfortable to you that you’ve used elsewhere. But it’s what I do, especially in an impromptu performance / jam / whatever. 

    If you are therefore are going to actually write a solo then here are some pointers:

    Overall: Fast? Slow? Does it have two episodes or just one thing? It could conceivably have 4 sections. 

    Arc: Does it have an overall theme? A leitmotiv that is repeated? Does it have a journey from bottom to top for example?

    Style: all bluesy? Or jazzy? Or starting standard then jazzing up a bit



    Those are all structural questions. Now you go to the notes:  

    Mood: are you trying to be morose, or exciting, or what? Will you have soaring suspended notes or will it all be 16ths?

    Primarily melodic or chord-tone based? Melodic is “better” IMO! But more creative and difficult. Even though it may sound simpler. 


    There are some thoughts.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    viz said:
    LastMantra said:
    I'm sure there will be people that say yes but personally I don't think about formula or any kind of theory. I just let rip. If it feels good to me I guess it'll sound decent to others.

    I’d sort of agree with that, especially for 8 bars - I guess the only thing is there’s a risk you’d just be rehashing stuff that feels comfortable to you that you’ve used elsewhere. But it’s what I do, especially in an impromptu performance / jam / whatever. 

    If you are therefore are going to actually write a solo then here are some pointers:

    Overall: Fast? Slow? Does it have two episodes or just one thing? It could conceivably have 4 sections. 

    Arc: Does it have an overall theme? A leitmotiv that is repeated? Does it have a journey from bottom to top for example?

    Style: all bluesy? Or jazzy? Or starting standard then jazzing up a bit



    Those are all structural questions. Now you go to the notes:  

    Mood: are you trying to be morose, or exciting, or what? Will you have soaring suspended notes or will it all be 16ths?

    Primarily melodic or chord-tone based? Melodic is “better” IMO! But more creative and difficult. Even though it may sound simpler. 


    There are some thoughts.
    I'm thinking rock basically, face melting pentatonic stuff. I guess phrasing is a big part. You need a mix of originality and cliche
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    Don’t be afraid of simplicity, catchy phrases and solid note choices around the arpeggio’s always work 
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    If the OP feels that he has to play something rather than chancing his arm / messing about on the Pentatonics, take a recognisable line from the song, play it and alter it to make it yours yet still a recognisable line from the song.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    Here’s one possible formula:
    Bars 1&2. Play the melody.
    Bars 3&4. Play the melody with a variation, for example ending on a note which leads into ...
    Bars 5&6. The interesting bit. It could be a counter melody, or some bends or fast flurries of notes, possibly played further up the the fretboard.
    Bars 7&8. Coming back down to earth. Some people like to keep building the tension, and end with a crescendo. This can work if the solo is followed by a quiet bit, or an á cappella section. However if it’s going straight back into a verse then you need to wind things down and give the singer space.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    From a phrasing point of view I always think a lot of expression is always a good thing. I inevitably start on a bend or a pre bend, use the tempo of the song to set my vibrato and try to play something that's relevant to the song .... avoid letting your hand choose the notes because it's familiar with the pentatonic box etc ... let your brain choose the notes based on what will sound good.

    When solo'ing target the 3rd and 5th scale notes of any given chord in the chord sequence

    There's many, many tricks with what notes to play over what chord but here's a sure fire winner that's easy to work out on the fly. Target the third or fifth of the next chord as it changes. So if your on an F#m chord for example and you know it's gonna change to Amaj for example target the third of Amaj as the change occurs .... so at that point bend up a B note to C# .... chord change goes to Emaj, then target the B note. 

    Basically the third of a chord is the most important because it's almost all the flavour of a chord .... in as much as you can use just the root and third to imply all the changes generally. The 5th note doesn't have the full impact of the 3rd but it will always generally fit and sound cool

    That's generally what I do, I realized that's what a lot of players like Gilmour, Clapton and Knopler were doing and basically copied it 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    @Danny1969 bending up to a target note in the new chord sounds great! Instant pro
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  • If I'm writing a solo, I listen to the music behind it and try to think of a structure based purely on "fast bit" and "slow bit". Based on that, I know where I need to hit "big" notes - those are the ones that act as anchors within the solo, because you have to let the audience breathe by giving them a "familiar" note...these are the target notes that @Danny1969 mentions.

    From there, I figure out some good starting points on the fretboard. Largely, if it's going to start with "fast" then it'll be above the 12th fret, and if "slow" it'll be below the 12th fret.

    There are only a few ways to meaningfully start a solo - bend, chord/double-stop, slide, or jump right in with a fast noodly bit. At least, that holds if you're not going to count studio tricks with fading/panning/etc.

    So, to recap - you know where you're starting, you know which bits are going to be fast and slow, and you know where your target notes appear. From there, it's pretty much filling in the blanks with whatever you think's appropriate.

    And then, if you're me, spending a few weeks learning to play it without getting cramps.
    <space for hire>
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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    Tapping, whammy and legato playing while drinking a pint to finish...for 8 bar show off moment
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  • Vaiai said:
    Tapping, whammy and legato playing while drinking a pint to finish...for 8 bar show off moment
    ...and a quick slide lick with the empty pint pot ;)
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    first off I look at context..
    is the solo to:
    - make the music climax
    generally a final musical statement that the song ends with or a high point within a song
    I'd make sure the solo ends high with the flashier licks towards the end
    pitch wise it'd have a general ascent as it works towards that final statement 

    - build from a lower dynamic level up to a higher one [like approaching a final chorus]
    same as previous.. I'd also tend to start melodic and gradually introduce the flashier bits so the note density increases too

    - spill-off energy
    gradually reduce note densities and general pitch.. maybe end with a melodic statement too
    basically the reverse of the above

    - compliment existing material
    create a "theme and variations" based upon existing melodic material
    like a snazzed up version of the chorus melody for example

    a few other thoughts:
    pitch can be used to create energy when rising and likewise spill it off in descent..
    ascending lines add excitement and make me think of things like joy / hope / triumph / celebration
    descending lines subtract energy and make me think of sadness / mourning / falling
    low note densities open out the music and provide a sense of space.. also the notes are around long enough to exploit dissonance and resolution for a sense of tension and release..
    they also make high notes soar. I use them for emphasis especially with bends as this adds the same pitch centric vibes stated above..
    high note densities add energy, intensity and determination.. I also use them if I want to exploit rhythmic phrasing.. a sort of 'tuned percussion'.. so the 'percussive accent' effectively appears where the lick changes direction or has a note that is a 'leap' within a stepwise phrase.. on occasion I'll also disregard tempo and play free / non-sync'd like a revving engine to create a sense of ebb and flow with intensity..
    in general though [where there's no specific context for guidance so "it's just a guitar solo"] I prefer to start with a theme or melodic line to make the solo memorable.. and then start turning up the wick..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • NPPNPP Frets: 236
    edited January 2020
    Eric Haugen has two good videos on this:



    and 




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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23966
    I like the Kerry King approach.

    Go apeshit in E minor.

    Done.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    I like the Kerry King approach.

    Go apeshit in E minor.

    Done.
    a tried and trusted method... lol
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    roberty said:
    @Danny1969 bending up to a target note in the new chord sounds great! Instant pro
    It really works mate doesn't it and so easy to implement 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Depends what the chord progression and the style of the backing is, I'll play to that.
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    The first thing I normally do is a first take improvisation, completely off the cuff, just to see if something cool comes out. Sometimes the first take can be the best one as you're fresh to the music and new ideas come out. 

    If that turns out to be shit, I'll then structure it and plan it out in sections. I've just done a short one for a mates project which starts with a bit of melody and then descends into shred (it's what he wanted and goes with the music!) with an ascending picking run matching the chord changes and then bends at the end mirroring the drum fill that finishes the section. 

    I've done similar with one for the band that took a lot longer, really trying to match the feel of the music and play more melodically though. I also used a different guitar to normal as I was completely uninspired initially - different guitar, different tone and loads of ideas came out. 
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  • If I try and get a solo down on paper I tie my fingers up trying to remember it, best to wing it Hendrix style. So long as it starts and finishes in the same place I'm happy! :)
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16255
    For occasional use you can play an alternate recognisable melody. I've certainly heard jazz based players do this. I've got a Gatemouth Brown track somewhere and his solo is playing the tune of Pop Goes the Weasel over a blues based track. We used to do a Specials track ( minds gone blank) and I had a bunch of bars to play over in A so I used to play the Bonanza riff. 
    It has to fit and it can't be a tune the audience would rather hear at length than what you're already playing. A quick burst of Happy Birthday in the middle of a face melting rock choon is a sure fire winner. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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