Formulas for structuring solos

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

For occasional use you can play an alternate recognisable melody. I've certainly heard jazz based players do this. I've got a Gatemouth Brown track somewhere and his solo is playing the tune of Pop Goes the Weasel over a blues based track. We used to do a Specials track ( minds gone blank) and I had a bunch of bars to play over in A so I used to play the Bonanza riff. 
It has to fit and it can't be a tune the audience would rather hear at length than what you're already playing. A quick burst of Happy Birthday in the middle of a face melting rock choon is a sure fire winner. 

That's a good suggestion. I once chickened out of a really hard solo in one of my band's original songs (I was having a bad guitar day), and played the chorus melody from Papa Don't Preach instead. Only about three people in the audience noticed, but I did get a knowing nod from one of them. Worth it.

stuartryanmusic

It’s worth learning a lot of the Steve Lukather and Carlos Rios session solos from the ‘80s for this - those guys typically had 8 bars in which to say everything in a pop/pop-rock track. I’ve transcribed a couple, just drop me a line if you fancy giving them a go - the Rios solo in ‘Dancing in the ceiling’ is a great example 

Clarky

Vibetronic said:

The first thing I normally do is a first take improvisation, completely off the cuff, just to see if something cool comes out. Sometimes the first take can be the best one as you're fresh to the music and new ideas come out. 

If that turns out to be shit, I'll then structure it and plan it out in sections. I've just done a short one for a mates project which starts with a bit of melody and then descends into shred (it's what he wanted and goes with the music!) with an ascending picking run matching the chord changes and then bends at the end mirroring the drum fill that finishes the section. 

I've done similar with one for the band that took a lot longer, really trying to match the feel of the music and play more melodically though. I also used a different guitar to normal as I was completely uninspired initially - different guitar, different tone and loads of ideas came out. 

although I'm big into context etc [all the stuff I wrote earlier in this thread where I'll be thinking about the general outline], when it comes to the actual notes, I like to start with improv too.. but improv on a contextual theme / plan..
it kinda gets the ball rolling..
If I don't have access to the backing track that I'll be solving over I'll build a rough emulation of it in Logic so I can loop it and experiment..
I like the idea of building big chunks of solos out of improvised licks and then refining them so that the solo don't sound too 'composed' and stiff..
as I go around and around the loop there will be things that I'll be looking out for though..
places where I can hang big notes etc...
my process is something like this:
- work out the context and general outline / direction / vibe
- jam over the backing track and experiment
- when the nice ideas settle and stick, use composition to refine them / fill in the gaps..

fastonebaz

I tend to put the backing  track on repeat then improvise over it repeatedly whilst letting my mind wander off, eventually whilst I'm in some kind of meditative trance and not really thinking of what I'm playing or hearing,  something unexpected and beautiful appears and I kind of come to, and then develop something around that new theme. 

True story. 

Dominic

I think it's easy when you have trial and error time and numerous takes to figure something out, trim it, ornament it and get the timing to work ........anybody with a musical mind can do that
The hardest thing is to think on your feet in an improv situation when it's all over by the time you have started to get your shit together and figured where your going with it.......that sorts the men from the boys
 Sadly I'm definitely one of the Boys

telehack

Listen to Elliot Easton from the Cars. Even if you don't like the music, he was an absolute master of short, effective guitar solos, especially on the first album (Best Friend's Girl, etc.).

roberty

Great advice here, some real food for thought. One thing I'm getting is that an 8 bar solo is probably pre-composed in part at least

Danny1969

Everyone is different and I'm not suggesting there's any particular right or wrong way but you do give yourself the best chance of playing something that's very melodic if you know what the exact chord changes are under your solo and you know exactly what notes your playing and which notes to  target. 
There's been times in the past where I have relied on familiar shapes rather than thinking about the notes and those solo's have always been less interesting than the ones I applied a little though power to. 

Grangousier

I wouldn't say pre-composed, but that one should keep in mind certain structures - call-and-response, say or AABA structure - so play whatever you like for one bar, answer it in the next, echo the first bar in the third bar, another answer in the fourth, then move up to a different position for five and six and seven and eight are more like the first few bars. That wouldn't be pre-written - you could start by just playing the first notes that come into your head - but you'd be aware of a structure you have to fit to, and have the last bar in mind while you're playing the first one. 

I've just got home from work, so my head's bubbling. Sorry if that's a bit mad and incoherent. 

roberty

Grangousier said:

I wouldn't say pre-composed, but that one should keep in mind certain structures - call-and-response, say or AABA structure - so play whatever you like for one bar, answer it in the next, echo the first bar in the third bar, another answer in the fourth, then move up to a different position for five and six and seven and eight are more like the first few bars. That wouldn't be pre-written - you could start by just playing the first notes that come into your head - but you'd be aware of a structure you have to fit to, and have the last bar in mind while you're playing the first one. 

I've just got home from work, so my head's bubbling. Sorry if that's a bit mad and incoherent. 

No mate that's good

Grangousier

Another one I remembered - and it's been ages since I've had to do this, and it was always a hack in the first place - is to think the lyrics to a completely different song and noodle along in the rhythm of it (not even try to play the tune) - for times when all you can really do is noodle.

Limericks are also good - they have basically the same structure as twelve-bar blues.

Try them - they could sound OK or they could sound terrible, depending on your own particular skills (I was always pretty good at mindless noodling, so tricks like that gave it the illusion of structure). They work best when you don't even need to think of the notes, obviously, because your brain would be occupied with trying to remember the rhythm of There Was a Young Fellow of Wick, or Frosty the Snowman or There Is a Green Hill Far Away. 

roberty

Grangousier said:

Another one I remembered - and it's been ages since I've had to do this, and it was always a hack in the first place - is to think the lyrics to a completely different song and noodle along in the rhythm of it (not even try to play the tune) - for times when all you can really do is noodle.

Limericks are also good - they have basically the same structure as twelve-bar blues.

Try them - they could sound OK or they could sound terrible, depending on your own particular skills (I was always pretty good at mindless noodling, so tricks like that gave it the illusion of structure). They work best when you don't even need to think of the notes, obviously, because your brain would be occupied with trying to remember the rhythm of There Was a Young Fellow of Wick, or Frosty the Snowman or There Is a Green Hill Far Away. 

That's brilliant haha. I'm thinking Vivaldi's four seasons in pentatonic threes

Modulus_Amps

couple thoughts

Ask the band for 16 bars to let your creative juices flow.. ha ha

secondly, if you can whistle it, its good and the punters will enjoy it.

Thirdly, If they can football chant to it then you will fill stadiums

2 and 3 require repetition of an idea

Vibetronic

This is the one I did - the briefing was just shred throughout pretty much, which I did but it sounded rather samey. So I changed the start so it was a touch more melodic, then a shreddy but melodic phrase. After that it went up F-G, so I did a little ascending picking thing which followed it. It then went to A briefly from what I remembered, so I slightly borrowed a little chromatic phrase from the Symphony of Destruction solo which went nicely, and turned out different enough sounding. I wanted to end it conclusively, so did the last 4 bends in sync with the snare hits. Only thing I wasn't happy with was the bends at the end - I wanted pinch harmonics on those, but it was with my new guitar and I hadn't quite found the sweet spot for those, so it only worked 2 out of 4 times roughly....so I stuck with normal bends. All took a couple of hours from start to smoothing out, getting each section sounding the way I wanted it. 

roberty

Vibetronic said:

This is the one I did - the briefing was just shred throughout pretty much, which I did but it sounded rather samey. So I changed the start so it was a touch more melodic, then a shreddy but melodic phrase. After that it went up F-G, so I did a little ascending picking thing which followed it. It then went to A briefly from what I remembered, so I slightly borrowed a little chromatic phrase from the Symphony of Destruction solo which went nicely, and turned out different enough sounding. I wanted to end it conclusively, so did the last 4 bends in sync with the snare hits. Only thing I wasn't happy with was the bends at the end - I wanted pinch harmonics on those, but it was with my new guitar and I hadn't quite found the sweet spot for those, so it only worked 2 out of 4 times roughly....so I stuck with normal bends. All took a couple of hours from start to smoothing out, getting each section sounding the way I wanted it. 

That is spectacular mate... jesus!

viz

Vibe, that was effing lovely as always. 

Vibetronic

thanks @roberty & @viz ! I don't normally keep these, but this was one of the first impro takes. The beginning was sloppy & had no impact, but it did eventually end in a nice-ish bend which I thought would be a much better start. There was a bit in the middle that was a bit too Van Halen, and totally didn't fit the song. I was starting to get the idea for the ascending run up through F & G towards the end. The end just sort of petered out. So I took two of those ideas (nice bend, asc. run) and remodelled it. I also had to tighten everything up...the backing my mate had done was very tight and thrashy so it had to fit that (he played the drums and guitar on the backing). All quite boring really but just an example of how I approached it from the start. 

viz

When’s the album?

Vibetronic

viz said:

When’s the album?

haha, sometime in about 2050 along with @thomasross20 's solo album I do have a load of tunes but it's all self-produced and I take ages even doing one. I do have an album with the band though, I'll send you a copy. 

viz

Vibetronic said:

viz said:

When’s the album?

haha, sometime in about 2050 along with @thomasross20 's solo album I do have a load of tunes but it's all self-produced and I take ages even doing one. I do have an album with the band though, I'll send you a copy. 

Hey cheers dude, i’ll really look forward to that! Viz