2019 SG Faked or not ???

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TTUTTU Frets: 6
I saw "Gibson SG '61re-issue 2019" on https://www.facebook.com/groups/UKMGEX/

On Gibson site
"Gibson USA 2014 to present – These serial numbers cannot be dated to a specific day of the year.
...
The pattern is as follows: YYRRRRRRR YY is the model year RRRRRRR is the number in product for the model year (starts at 0000001)"
The serial number font IMO looks different from the one used by Gibson

I wrote to the Seller, he answered : "It's not fake at all! I bought it from a reputable store and have the relevant paperwork". I asked
If he could reveal which "reputable store" sells this kind of Gibsons. He answered "Lol are you the fbi?".

The Messenger discussion lasted a little longer, but the seller remained with his opinion about SG authenticity - he sent me a photo of the potentiometer cavity and the pots looked original, although the shot does not ensure that this is the cavity of this guitar. I didn't find the "reputable store" name, although I asked it a second time.

Is my knowledge of Gibson serial numbers outdated or have I wrote to an cheater?








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Comments

  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    I don't know about the serial number but it looks real to me, but I would need to see more pictures to be sure. 

    It's possible they changed the serial number system again last year when the new management took over but haven't updated that page on the website yet. 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • GoldenEraGuitarsGoldenEraGuitars Frets: 8820
    tFB Trader
    If he can’t tell you which shop he bought it from then I’d walk away. Regardless of whether it’s real or not you asked him a simple question... how hard is it to answer it? That alone casts doubt on the guitar in general.
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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011
    edited January 2020
    Looks legit - first and fifth digit are the year. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are the day, last 3 are the production number. Sticking the serial in here: https://www.guitarinsite.nl/serienummers-gibson_eng.php comes up as the guitar having been made on 26th April 2019 in Nashville.

    The seller's reticence to disclose where he got it from might just be that you put his nose out of joint by immediately suggesting his guitar was fake...
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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011
    Here's another 2019 reissue from the Peach website. No closeups of the rear of the headstock but font and positioning etc. look identical.


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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    I think the name is a bit confusing, the serial appears to be a 2011 SG, by Gibsons methods since 2014. It does not appear to be a '61 reissue' as that would have come from custom shop, with a historic serial number, it may well be a '61' model, made in 2011, as most modern production line guitars have similar looking serial no.s.
    I do know that Gibson have used other ways of numbering ,which can lead to confusion, the pics look ok, but if it is being sold as a 'Historic' RI, ie--custom shop, you would be looking at the wrong kind of serial number for a start.
    USA standards, all have the same format 9 digit serials, 'Historic' models have 5 or 6 digit ink stamps, and they are very different guitars.
    It certainly looks like a nice neck, but need to see the rest to be sure,

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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011
    andy_k said:
    I think the name is a bit confusing, the serial appears to be a 2011 SG, by Gibsons methods since 2014. It does not appear to be a '61 reissue' as that would have come from custom shop, with a historic serial number, it may well be a '61' model, made in 2011, as most modern production line guitars have similar looking serial no.s.
    I do know that Gibson have used other ways of numbering ,which can lead to confusion, the pics look ok, but if it is being sold as a 'Historic' RI, ie--custom shop, you would be looking at the wrong kind of serial number for a start.
    USA standards, all have the same format 9 digit serials, 'Historic' models have 5 or 6 digit ink stamps, and they are very different guitars.
    It certainly looks like a nice neck, but need to see the rest to be sure,

    Gibson released three SG reissues this year that were not from the custom shop.
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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011


    Then again the serial of the ones at GuitarGuitar do start with 19 as per the post-2014 numbering system so....no idea. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Looks genuine to me from what I can see there. It has the correct type of machineheads (which are not the same as the typical Chinese copies) and the accuracy (or not!) of fitting them, and the wood type and shaping looks right.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Just from the font, tuners and headstock looks genuine at first glance
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    I've been looking at various Goldtops lately, Studios, Standards, and Tributes. Gibson serial numbers used to be easy to decipher based on my old Standard. It's a flipping minefield now and even emailing Gibson gets you discrepancies. It looks genuine to me, how they've managed to mess up the serial numbers God knows, but I wouldn't rely on them 100%.

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011
    Just asked the seller about it and he said he got it from Richtone last year - the serial thing is a bit confusing but if it is what it says it is it looks like a really good price. 
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  • Alex2678Alex2678 Frets: 1088
    edited January 2020
    Looks good to me. I think the first lot of 2019s had a 19 serial and ‘2019 model’, more recent ones have this serial format and no longer have a year stamp. Gibson have 3 ‘61 standards’ in the factory line, not 100% accurate reissues as the custom shop ones are, but only in the minute details like headstock inlay placement ect
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    As I said above, a lot of confusion arises from the name, and by changing the format of the serial number, it only makes things worse.
    As I understand things, pre 2014, serials were 9 digits, 1 and 5 denoted year, 234 denoted day, and last ones were production run.
    According to the Gibson statement above-things changed in 2014, and now we have another change in 2019.
    Calling a guitar a reissue, used to mean it was a historically accurate model, which came from the custom shop, with a historically accurate 5 or 6 digit ink stamped serial, and completely different build quality.
    The recent names that are being used, should be clearer, ie '61 STYLE standard' and not '61 REissue', but it is easy to see how the seller of this particular guitar might get it wrong.
    In his mind, it is a '61 Standard', which is a Gibson USA  modern version of the SG, but it is NOT a reissue, as that implies a historic model, and the serial number only confuses things further, could be a 2011, could be a 2019?
    If he bought it new, last year, it is highly unlikely to be a 2011, and the specs would have been completely different then anyway.
    The last few years have been confusing for Gibson, and they haven't done themselves any favours with these changes IMHO>

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  • Alex2678Alex2678 Frets: 1088
    ^definitely agree. 
    Easiest way to tell a recent 2019 from older ones is that the older models had the year stamped as well (i.e. ‘2011 model’ under the made in USA stamp)
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