RIP: Amps

AndyJP

I've gone back to amps after a patient and experimental try with a Kemper. It sounded great at home but just couldn't get a decent sound with a band. I play blues and just couldn't bond with it. I tried straight to pa, frfr and matrix / cab route.

It got to the point where I turned up to a rehearsal with a Kemper, cab and separate matrix power amp. I had more gear than I'd ever had. Still wasn't happy with the sound and constantly tweaking.

So I sold and went back to a simple victory amp. Now I don't feel the need to tweak because it just sounds great. If I want a constant foh I'll get a suhr reactive load ir

AndyJP

Plus as a comparison here's my Victory tone



Here's my Kemper tone




To me the Kemper sounds compressed and thin.

Philtre

Let's all get Katanas!

dindude

Just to clarify my main point - it wasn’t about being an old git or stopping progress - it was more around the fact that we still seam to have a big compromise in the sound quality department, to my ears at least. I have heard a Helix sound fantastic (with a much better player than me), and a Kemper too - but when I take the rains I just can’t get it to work or sound right. 

KrisGee

AndyJP said:

Plus as a comparison here's my Victory tone



Here's my Kemper tone




To me the Kemper sounds compressed and thin.

Regardless of tone - nice vids, like the way you shot them, great playing too. Subscribed.

Think the main reason for new tech stepping in is how life got faster and revolutionised in so many ways. People want mobility, fancy features, reliability, quicker setup, less cabling on stage, easier travel with gear.
Sadly big tube amps, no matter how great they sound, they offer nothing of the mentioned. 

It's all good as long as the new devices are used to create and perform music. Good news for real amp lovers is the second hand market is more affordable than ever.

JohnCordy

@dindude I expect many young players may face the exact situation in reverse.

I grew up playing Pods and such, and when I bought my first Mesa there's a bit of a learning curve...likewise if you're going from the real amp world to a modelling situation, there's a learning curve.

To be fair though, in a blues environment or something like that I cant really see a good argument for not taking out a real amp?

AndyJP

@KrisGee thanks for the compliment buddy thx for the subscribe too . I'm working on a Matt Schofield tune at the mo.

Agree with all the plus points you made. Can't argue with that!  Defo agree digital is flexible,  portable, reliable, consistent etc. 

ICBM

AndyJP said:

Plus as a comparison here's my Victory tone

Here's my Kemper tone

To me the Kemper sounds compressed and thin.

The interesting thing for me is that I actually prefer the *tone* (ie EQ, and harmonic content) from the Kemper - to me the Victory sounds too muffled - but the dynamics are awful from the Kemper. It doesn't help that it sounds much quieter - if you turn it up a bit so it's as loud as the Victory clip it's better-sounding, but the compression is way over the top and sounds 'forced'.

Given the type of sound you're going for I really don't see the point in making things more complex than they need to be - it's much easier, as well as more natural-sounding, just to use a valve amp - you don't need versatility, just a good tone. That type of music evolved around simple valve amps, so it 'just works' when you use one. (Nice playing by the way .)

Another friend of mine who plays a completely different style - modern funk/rock - has just bought a Kemper too after struggling to get what he wanted out of valve amps, so I'll be interested to see how it works out for him.

AndyJP

Cheers @ICBM !

Totally agree with the compression point. The valve amps eats it for breakfast. I couldn't dial that out of the Kemper.  I tried all the headroom tweaks with it. Had the output set to -18db, took all the compression.out of the input stage. Granted that profile is a MBritt dumble so guess compression is part of the sound.

Still learning on the mic amp recording bit. But I literally just slapped the mic slightly off centre and at 45 degrees.  So no time spent on tone tweaking. I'd had the amp one day at the the time I recorded. That Kemper tone had taken me 18 months to get to that stage.

Sassafras

I get the impression people want a zillion mediocre sounds rather than one great sound.
Digital's lost on me because I've always stuck with a very basic sound without fancy effects

gringopig

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AndyJP

@JohnCordy agree on that. I use the same tone and use the guitar controls to flick between rhythm and lead.  So don't need versatility.

With thea kemper I was sold on the idea of having a portable rig that sounded the same at home as it did with a band. Portable and good at home it was. Shame I couldn't get used to it with a band. But I really tried!

WiresDreamDisasters

John_A said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Valve amps just sound the best. And everyone knows it.

Very probably true in the right situation.  Not however in a bedroom studio, or at the Dog n Duck.  Since 'going Helix' I'm probably only 99% as happy with the on stage feel of my sound, but the overall out front sound has improved vastly, and my home recordings are loads better too.

Valve amps sound the best to me in my bedroom and when I'm down the Dog n Duck (not a real place).

John_A

WiresDreamDisasters said:

John_A said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Valve amps just sound the best. And everyone knows it.

Very probably true in the right situation.  Not however in a bedroom studio, or at the Dog n Duck.  Since 'going Helix' I'm probably only 99% as happy with the on stage feel of my sound, but the overall out front sound has improved vastly, and my home recordings are loads better too.

Valve amps sound the best to me in my bedroom and when I'm down the Dog n Duck (not a real place).

Me too, but the overall band mix is IMO more important, plus the fact the singer can actually hear themselves because there isn’t a 4x12 6 feet away from them.  If I was gigging in an originals band at decent venues I’d probably use a real amp, but I’m not

vasselmeyer

I haven't turned my amp on since getting my BOSS GT-1000 and the band going to in-ears. I don't even bother taking it with me to gigs. I have a Pedaltrain Nano+ with a couple of pedals and a Zoom Multistomp to get me through if the GT-1000 packs up.

I do play at the mythical Dog & Duck where you're often tucked in the corner by the dartboard and space is at a premium. Getting rid of my big pedalboard and a 2x12 has been liberating. 

The only pedal I added was a Freeqout and now I can do everything I did with my old set up. I don't miss it and guess what...no one in the audience gives a shit.

ICBM

I'm not sure a pub gig needs anything more sophisticated than a traditional amp. I played a gig last night in a small pub - backline, unmic'ed drums, vocals only in the PA. The guitarist used a 30W valve amp attenuated to half power with a load box through a 2x12", and I used an old solid-state 100W 1x15" bass amp provided by the venue. Despite the bass amp being pushed to the very limit - from where I was it sounded wheezy and I was a bit worried it might die on me - apparently it all sounded great out front. No point in making things more complicated than they need to be.

John_A

Thing is it’s not complicated, it’s easier if anything.  We hen I used a valve amp for pub gigs we we regularly told it sound great out front, now we’re told it sounds amazing and the sound where we’re playing is amazing too

Danny1969

If you could just take a modeller that fitted into your gig bag and that was all you needed then fine I would be into that but I don't see the sense in having to take a PA speaker as well .... if I'm gonna drag a modeller and a PA speaker to gigs I would sooner just use a 1 x 12" combo. I know you can just DI and use ears, I've been on IEM's for a long time but in some venues where you are spread along a wall with the main PA speakers quite far apart this won't work without centre fills. I watched a band a few months ago who had no cabs at all onstage, everyone was on ears and if you stood towards the sides it sounded pretty good. However when you stood in the centre near the stage it was all basically drums. With a more traditional setup this doesn't happen as you hear the cabs onstage when you venture near the band in the centre and the vocal wedges .... it's a different sound from the FOH but it is all still there

Theater gigs are different, there are infill speakers and the FOH sound is a lot more sophisticated. Just using a Helix for Kate Bush tribute gigs is very appealing because we generally go in a splitter van and space is tight so I will probably get one when prices soften  ..... which will be when the next great modelling thing comes out

the_butler

Too many people have gotten emotionally invested in impractical 100 watt heads & 4x12's
I have 5 watt and 20 watt amps a 4x10 & 1x12, 
I don't feel the need for a modeller for my applications

ICBM

the_butler said:

Too many people have gotten emotionally invested in impractical 100 watt heads & 4x12's
I have 5 watt and 20 watt amps a 4x10 & 1x12, 
I don't feel the need for a modeller for my applications

I never used 100W amps for the volume, only for the tone - they have a depth and fullness that smaller amps just don't, even when running quite quietly - but that said, they're still too heavy and bulky for me to want to use one any more.

I don't need or want a modeller either - a decent analogue solid-state amp is fine. I'm really not sure why this technology is so overlooked, since it's the best of both worlds - light, powerful, reliable, flexible but simple, and can sound great.

I suspect the answer is perception based on the very many solid-state amps built down to a low quality when they were always seen as the poor relation to valve, so little was invested in making them sound good...