Could it be the case?

Haych

A while ago I started a thread criticising the quality of the plating on gold hardware for tarnishing very quickly. Admittedly it’s an issue that other types of hardware don’t seem to suffer from in the same way. 

The guitar in question is a rather expensive Gibson signature model and I haven’t used it very much in all honesty. 

However, I also notice that the frets on this particular guitar oxidise very quickly compared to other guitars I have, which also get the same amount of use and which also stay in their case when not being used. 

That begs the question, could the case be responsible for the hardware and the frets tarnishing/oxidising so quickly?

There's a large pouch of silica gel in the case which hopefully keeps moisture under control but could there be some kind of chemical additive or treatment applied to the case lining during manufacture that's attacking the metal parts?

I put new strings on about a week ago and polished the frets at the same time but they've already started oxidising quite a lot - certainly far more significantly than they should in a week!

I've had the guitar a couple of years now so I doubt I could put in a warranty claim in any case (no pun intended) but it would be a shame if the one thing designed to protect the guitar was actually damaging it.

ICBM

Does the guitar have a celluloid pickguard or binding?

Haych

ICBM said:

Does the guitar have a celluloid pickguard or binding?

Umm, pass. I wouldn't think so to be honest, the pickguard still has the protection film on it but looks very normal to me, similarly the binding doesn't look like it's celluloid - there's certainly nothing in the Gibson spec that suggests there are any historic materials involved.

ICBM

Haych said:

Umm, pass. I wouldn't think so to be honest, the pickguard still has the protection film on it but looks very normal to me, similarly the binding doesn't look like it's celluloid - there's certainly nothing in the Gibson spec that suggests there are any historic materials involved.

Worth asking, since celluloid is known to emit nitric acid vapour as it degrades - although that shouldn't happen with fairly new stuff, it's usually a problem after decades.

I also wonder if nitrocellulose lacquer might, if it's not fully hardened... it's not far off the same chemical material.

If it's neither of those it does sound like glue in the case lining is a strong possibility, unless the case has been stored somewhere damp and the lining has absorbed moisture. Have you checked the silica gel is dry?

Haych

The spec of the guitar is here.  If they've used Richlite for the fingerboard I can't see them using vintage materials for the plastics.  

It is finished in nitro, though, and the same thought occurred to me when you mentioned the celluloid previously, however, the finish seems alright in as much as it doesn't seem soft and there're no areas that seem 'off', although I do appreciate that even modern finishes can take years to show signs of problems.

The case and silica gel is bone dry, always has been and I'm very careful about where I leave the guitar whether it's in the case or not.

If it is the glue used to make the case is there anything that can be done apart from buying a new case?  Leave it open in a warm environment for a few weeks/months or is it basically gonna be like this for eternity?

ICBM

Not sure. I think some glues do give off acetic acid when they cure - the sort of sealant used in bathrooms definitely does, but I don't know if any glues are related to this - in which case it should stop eventually, but I don't really know. Probably the best thing to do is try it - keep the guitar on a stand or hanger (nitro safe!) for a few weeks with the case open somewhere well-ventilated, then see if the problem comes back.

viz

Clever thread title

skunkwerx

I had a prs se tremonti (the se version? With wraparound bridge). Basically the cheapest prs/tremonti model. 

Same thing happened to all its metal. The frets, tuners and wraparound bridge. 

Polished it with normal guitar polish, was fine for about a week or less but kept happening. 

Was really annoying as once it tarnished over it left some kind of grubbyness on the fingers, like a residue. 

I bought it new and the issue happened very soon after, maybe a month. 

I got shot of it after a while. 

It didnt have a case, though it came in a gigbag. I always kept it out though. 

It just had regular nickel frets and prs hardware which I heard contains a certain amount more nickel than usual? However on a base model I'm not sure it applied. 

My esp 1000 with gold pickups and hardware hasnt done this. I know it will 'rub off' after a while but I'm not sure if thats the same as tarnishing or not.. 

p90fool

That powerful, slightly cloying "new Gibson smell" is actually the case glue and it will eventually evaporate completely, though leaving it open will obviously accelerate that. 

Not saying that's definitely the issue, but I'm still removing my Gibsons from their cases immediately after a gig as even Elixir strings can feel "grippy" the following morning if I leave them in the case overnight. 

Haych

Can’t say I’ve noticed any kind of smell but then my wife tells me I couldn’t smell a turd under my own nose so maybe that’s no surprise. 

The frets tarnishing so quickly really has me baffled. Thinking about it though, if it was the case then the hardware would be tarnishing in a uniform manner, and it isn’t. 

The neck pickup cover has tarnished badly, the bridge pickup cover not nearly as much (I would have thought the bridge pickup would wear faster than the neck). The tailpiece has some oxidisation showing but the bridge is almost pristine. The tuner buttons have tarnished badly too. 

Also, given that the guitar was kept in the case presumably since manufacture, if the case was to blame then it would have come out of the case in a sorry state. So I’m now leaning towards environmental conditions being at fault, although still none of my other guitars have oxidised frets, that really has foxed me!

I kind of accept the gold hardware oxidising, it always seems to even though I don’t have particularly acid sweat or anything (based on how long my strings seem to last) but it’s disappointing that the frets oxidise the way they do. 

Iamnobody

Do you have any photos of the oxidisation on the frets? It sounds like an issue I have with a Gibson SG.

ICBM

Could it be the Richlite? That would explain where the corrosion is.

Richlite is made from phenolic resin, I don't know if that could emit some sort of corrosive vapour.

skunkwerx

Hmm weird how only some of the metal has tarnished..

Haych

Some pictures here, if I can make them work. Not sure if the oxidisation of the frets has photographed well. 

ICBM

It's you...

Sorry . No offence intended, but this is exactly the pattern of corrosion you see on guitars owned by people with slightly acidic sweat.

The tarnished areas are only in the places you would touch it when you're playing or tuning it - the neck pickup shows this perfectly, the strings have protected the areas under them, and the raised end of the fingerboard has kept your hand away from the pickup on that side. The machinehead keys - but not the main casings of them - the edges of the bridge pickup, the bridge itself and the bass-side tailpiece stud all show it too. The case lining over the strings will also have absorbed sweat from the strings when you put the guitar away.

Why this guitar should be more prone to the frets corroding than your other ones may just be down to the exact grade of nickel-silver that's used, different manufacturers use different types.

Iamnobody

The frets look like my SG. The rest of the hardware is chrome though so wouldn’t tarnish. It’s left in the case and has seldom been taken out over the last 7 years.

It’s a rosewood fretboard...

It doesn’t have a silica gel pack in there. Could mine be a simple moisture issue?

Heres mine with a telecaster for fret colour comparison:

https://imgur.com/gallery/B4xZfEm

This guitar doesn’t get used as I’ve had other SGs.

Haych

ICBM said:

It's you...

Sorry . No offence intended, but this is exactly the pattern of corrosion you see on guitars owned by people with slightly acidic sweat.

The tarnished areas are only in the places you would touch it when you're playing or tuning it - the neck pickup shows this perfectly, the strings have protected the areas under them, and the raised end of the fingerboard has kept your hand away from the pickup on that side. The machinehead keys - but not the main casings of them - the edges of the bridge pickup, the bridge itself and the bass-side tailpiece stud all show it too. The case lining over the strings will also have absorbed sweat from the strings when you put the guitar away.

Why this guitar should be more prone to the frets corroding than your other ones may just be down to the exact grade of nickel-silver that's used, different manufacturers use different types.

No offence taken. Neither am I arguing it isn’t me but is still don’t understand why the neck pickup has tarnished so badly but the bridge pickup (over which my right hand hovers while I’m playing) is far less tarnished.

Edit: and the bridge itself for that matter, to which my right hand is anchored is largely untouched by any oxidisation. 

ICBM

You may be touching the neck pickup more than you think, and the bridge pickup less. The edge of the bridge where you have touched it is tarnished - most of it is protected by the saddles and strings being higher.

The machinehead keys are a major giveaway - they're definitely not in contact with the case lining at all, and it's only the faces of the keys that are affected - if it was something to do with a vapour then the rest of them would be equally tarnished.

Haych

ICBM said:

You may be touching the neck pickup more than you think, and the bridge pickup less. The edge of the bridge where you have touched it is tarnished - most of it is protected by the saddles and strings being higher.

The machinehead keys are a major giveaway - they're definitely not in contact with the case lining at all, and it's only the faces of the keys that are affected - if it was something to do with a vapour then the rest of them would be equally tarnished.

Who knew I was related to HR Giger’s Alien?

ICBM

Haych said:

Who knew I was related to HR Giger’s Alien?

You're not that bad . I know someone who borrowed a Strat for one set at a gig, and afterwards not only were the strings black, the formerly near-pristine bridge saddles were completely rusted solid...

skunkwerx

Dunno if thats rosewood.. theres like no pores. I've found gibsons and epiphones rosewood to look like the m25.