Gibson SG Deluxe v Grover Vintage Deluxe tuners - are the Grovers better? Update: Rotomatics fitted

Voxman

I've never been 100% happy with the normal Deluxe Gibson tuners on my 2006 SG Standard - hard to explain, smooth to use but they seem too sensitive to movement.  I didn't want to start drilling bigger holes or having non-original screw positions and wanted to keep the original 'Deluxe' look, so I was recommended to get a set of Grover 14:1 ratio Grover Vintage Deluxe tuners that are a direct drop in (for 10mm radius holes) and look identical that folk have said are a huge improvement.  

I haven't yet opened the Grover packaging so can still get a refund on these. In my ignorance I thought that 14:1 was a better ratio than the Gibson tuners but having now taken one of the Gibson Deluxe tuners out I've discovered it's also 14:1. Folk who have made the change have all said the Grovers are a huge improvement.  For those here that have made the change and to others knowledgeable here, please could you explain if the Grovers will be better and if so why, and why it's not just about the gear-ratio?  

Many thanks

Rich

Lesgrandepotato

If it’s not the ratio it has to be the gear mesh is more precise so they are smoother to use.

p90fool

I can't help with the different feel thing, but putting 18:1 Grovers on my Les Paul was one of the best things I ever did, it's so much easier to be quick and accurate in a gig situation with less sensitive tuners.

ICBM

Voxman said:

I've never been 100% happy with the normal Deluxe Gibson tuners on my 2006 SG Standard - hard to explain, smooth to use but they seem too sensitive to movement.  I didn't want to start drilling bigger holes or having non-original screw positions and wanted to keep the original 'Deluxe' look, so I was recommended to get a set of Grover 14:1 ratio Grover Vintage Deluxe tuners that are a direct drop in (for 10mm radius holes) and look identical that folk have said are a huge improvement.  

I haven't yet opened the Grover packaging so can still get a refund on these. In my ignorance I thought that 14:1 was a better ratio than the Gibson tuners but having now taken one of the Gibson Deluxe tuners out I've discovered it's also 14:1. Folk who have made the change have all said the Grovers are a huge improvement.  For those here that have made the change and to others knowledgeable here, please could you explain if the Grovers will be better and if so why, and why it's not just about the gear-ratio?

The reason they look identical and have the same ratio is that they're the same tuners apart from the Gibson logo.

Grover *Rotomatics* are much better tuners and are also a drop-in fit - leaving the upper screw hole empty - but change the look and are also a bit heavier, which may matter on an SG.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

I've never been 100% happy with the normal Deluxe Gibson tuners on my 2006 SG Standard - hard to explain, smooth to use but they seem too sensitive to movement.  I didn't want to start drilling bigger holes or having non-original screw positions and wanted to keep the original 'Deluxe' look, so I was recommended to get a set of Grover 14:1 ratio Grover Vintage Deluxe tuners that are a direct drop in (for 10mm radius holes) and look identical that folk have said are a huge improvement.  

I haven't yet opened the Grover packaging so can still get a refund on these. In my ignorance I thought that 14:1 was a better ratio than the Gibson tuners but having now taken one of the Gibson Deluxe tuners out I've discovered it's also 14:1. Folk who have made the change have all said the Grovers are a huge improvement.  For those here that have made the change and to others knowledgeable here, please could you explain if the Grovers will be better and if so why, and why it's not just about the gear-ratio?

The reason they look identical and have the same ratio is that they're the same tuners apart from the Gibson logo.

Grover *Rotomatics* are much better tuners and are also a drop-in fit - leaving the upper screw hole empty - but change the look and are also a bit heavier, which may matter on an SG.

Thanks @ICBM - boy, am I glad I checked this!!  Not worried re a bit extra weight. The hole is 10mm so just double checking that the single screw will match one of the deluxe screw holes, and that there aren't different versions of the Rotomatics. Many thanks.

ICBM

Voxman said:

Thanks @ICBM - boy, am I glad I checked this!!  The hole is 10mm so just double checking that the single screw will match one of the deluxe screw holes, and that there aren't different versions of the Rotomatics - just to be safe, for nickel or chrome, could you point me to the right model number?  Many thanks.

Grover Rotomatic 102-18N or 102-18C - the 18 is the ratio, and Nickel or Chrome depends what the rest of the hardware is, or which you prefer...

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

Thanks @ICBM - boy, am I glad I checked this!!  The hole is 10mm so just double checking that the single screw will match one of the deluxe screw holes, and that there aren't different versions of the Rotomatics - just to be safe, for nickel or chrome, could you point me to the right model number?  Many thanks.

Grover Rotomatic 102-18N or 102-18C - the 18 is the ratio, and Nickel or Chrome depends what the rest of the hardware is, or which you prefer...

Brilliant, thank you!

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

The reason they look identical and have the same ratio is that they're the same tuners apart from the Gibson logo.

I thought that was the case but wasn't sure.  On the subject of Grovers, do you know where they're made?  I've always thought of them as an American brand but they're relatively inexpensive so presumably they're actually made in the Far East?

And going back to the Gibson Deluxe tuners, Schaller make a very similar bolt-bushing, plastic-button tuner.  Presumably they're not the same as the Grovers, but did Gibson use Schallers at some point in the past?

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

On the subject of Grovers, do you know where they're made?  I've always thought of them as an American brand but they're relatively inexpensive so presumably they're actually made in the Far East?

I have no idea! None of the online listings seem to say, and I can't remember whether there's anything on the packaging.

Philly_Q said:

And going back to the Gibson Deluxe tuners, Schaller make a very similar bolt-bushing, plastic-button tuner.  Presumably they're not the same as the Grovers, but did Gibson use Schallers at some point in the past?

They're not quite the same - the basic design is, but the cover riveting is slightly different so they're definitely not from the same production line. Gibson have also used them in the past, yes.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

Thanks @ICBM - boy, am I glad I checked this!!  The hole is 10mm so just double checking that the single screw will match one of the deluxe screw holes, and that there aren't different versions of the Rotomatics - just to be safe, for nickel or chrome, could you point me to the right model number?  Many thanks.

Grover Rotomatic 102-18N or 102-18C - the 18 is the ratio, and Nickel or Chrome depends what the rest of the hardware is, or which you prefer...

Many thanks again @ICBM ;; for your (as always) great advice. Just fitted the Grover Rotomatic 102-18C tuners.  Perfect drop in fit, and what a difference re tuning stability and accuracy with the 18:1 ratio.  Absolutely brilliant, these feel good, operate smoothly, look good plus there's very little difference weight wise with no neck dive. 

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