Money for Nothing....... guitar sound

midlifecrisis

we play it live, just use a humbucker guitar on bridge pickup with the tone rolled off, sounds spot on

thebreeze

Voxman said:

About 12 years ago I had a go at at MFN trying to get something like the right sound, and it's really tough to get it. Unfortunately I only had a cheap camera at the time and the sound quality is pretty poor - if you have an EQ on your soundcard and can up the highs & mids it will sound closer to the sound in the room. It's not the best playing in the world I know, but its not an easy one to do.

That's great playing and sound.  Although I have to say my favourite bit of that has to be what can only be MrsVoxman at the end.  Brilliant.  

thebreeze

Phil_C said:

I play this song all the time and I find (obviously) that every guitar makes it sound different. Les Paul is best for it imo.

Gain pedal, light distortion and a crybaby wah. Takes some experimenting with the wah to find the correct static position.

So right about the guitar.  I used to have an early 80's The Strat and on the more humbucky positions it sounded closer than the Les Paul.

Littlejonny

EricTheWeary said:

Littlejonny said:

I heard that he didn’t use a wah, and that it’s a cranked fender tweed, but he used a wah to recreate it live.

Ahh...

ICBM said:

https://www.toontrack.com/news/the-money-for-nothing-tone/

Aaah...well that’s pretty definitive then! I wonder what Laney amp it was??

ICBM

Littlejonny said:

I wonder what Laney amp it was??

Assuming it was new in 1985 - not just ‘new’ to Knopfler - and was a valve 2x12” combo, then it must have been an AOR 100.

I can’t really see Knopfler using a Pro Linebacker Twin... although they’re surprisingly good-sounding amps.

StuartMac290

Never knew it was a Les Paul Junior! Fascinating 

EricTheWeary

I did Google about which Laney it was and found a website devoted to a song by song breakdown of Knopfler's gear which says Les Paul Standard into a Marshall JTM 45 which is a bit of ( seemingly false) information that's scattered around the internet. There is an old Guitar interview where MK talks about playing that part through a cranked Marshall but I think he is specifically referring to the version he did with Weird Al Yancovik.
Anyway, none the wiser about the Laney. 

Rocker

Thanks guys for all the input and suggestions.  I noted @ICBM pedal suggestion and that someone had suggested using the bridge pickup on a humbucker guitar.  This is what I have being doing but the amp needs to be pushed a bit harder to get a bit closer to the MK sound.  Nobody complained though!  Thanks to @Voxman for recording and posting his playing of MFN.  This has inspired me more than almost any other online video on how to play this song.  Well played Sir.

So before I bought anything I had a rummage around and tried some kit that I had:

Marshall MS-2.  I connected the headphone output to my amp.  In order for it to work, I had to withdraw the jack plug about 6 mm from full in.  This gave a reasonably close approximation of the sound I was looking for, closer than using the guitar straight in to the amp, so this is one possible solution.  I would need to make a ring to set the jack plug in the 'right' place for it to work.  The Marshall adds a nice darkened quality to the sound with the OD maxed out

Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive.  I have always considered this to be a clean boost but it too gives a reasonably close approximation of MK guitar sound when the Drive is maxed out.  My wife thought it was 'better' than the Marshall and it is easier to setup and use.  So the Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive is the chosen one for the time being.  I intend to spend some time in Waltons [music shop in Dublin] soon trying out other distortion pedals but the Sparkle Drive does the job and will be used unless something better is found.

Hurling_Fruitmig

Emiel said:

‘ere ye go, the man himself explains it:

https://youtu.be/59_juI9dnRY

I love the way MK always makes it sound so simple.

ChrisCox1994

Middle pickup setting on an LP, bridge tone control on 0 and neck tone on 10, gain sound + a boost. 

95% there.... 

stephen.wood125

@voxman bloody hell, that sounded great to me! Wow duly awarded.

Littlejonny

So Laney AOR 100? If that’s true and word gets out they could go up in value!

Littlejonny

Ok just checked on google - they’re already quite pricey!

Voxman

Littlejonny said:

So Laney AOR 100? If that’s true and word gets out they could go up in value!

Littlejonny said:

Ok just checked on google - they’re already quite pricey!

AFAIR guys (but I stand to be corrected) I think the AOR100 was only made as a head. There's a cheap AOR Pro combo which isn't the same thing. MK used a 2x12 combo, and I think the only all valve Laney 2x12 valve combos at that time were the VC, LC and GH series.  But I can't find anything anywhere to clarify exactly what Laney 2x12 was used.  But even then I'm assuming MK went all valve of course, rather than tranny...but who knows!  I don't even think he remembers! Lol

Btw, thank you to all those very kind souls who posted that they liked my vid clip...you're all very kind, and very forgiving! ...And yes, I was indeed in deep do-do with Mrs Voxman at the end! ...be afraid, be very afraid!! Lol   

Funkfingers

This ol’ chestnut has been described in loving detail in the Sound On Sound magazine’s Classic Tracks article series. Usually, the producer and/or engineer recalls the salient points.

Without digging out the hard copy, my recollection is LP Junior into cranked Crate valve amplifier, probably with the guitar’s tone control rolled back. Microphone placement and room reverberations were part of the formula.

The combination of finger/thumb style playing and Clapton “woman tone” is the sound. The cocked wah pedal is an attempt to recreate the recorded sound on stage whilst using the wrong guitar. 

hollywoodrox

Voxman said:

About 12 years ago I had a go at at MFN trying to get something like the right sound, and it's really tough to get it. Unfortunately I only had a cheap camera at the time and the sound quality is pretty poor - if you have an EQ on your soundcard and can up the highs & mids it will sound closer to the sound in the room. It's not the best playing in the world I know, but its not an easy one to do.

Man that’s really great , takes me back to being a teenager and watching the video With the removal men in Woolworths in Peterborough . They also regularly played the thriller video and a crowd would gather round to watch it , it was a major thing . Fantastic rendition anyway .thanks for sharing 

Phil_C

I emailed you a sample but I actually made a full video for this the other day. I'm relatively new to recording guys so go easy  

Constructive criticism welcome!

https://youtu.be/xJT_SiIbYDE

ICBM

Voxman said:

AFAIR guys (but I stand to be corrected) I think the AOR100 was only made as a head. There's a cheap AOR Pro combo which isn't the same thing. MK used a 2x12 combo, and I think the only all valve Laney 2x12 valve combos at that time were the VC, LC and GH series.

Sorry, wrong on both points! They definitely made a 2x12” AOR100 combo, and no other valve 2x12” at the time - the LC, VC and GH series are all later. The only other 2x12” they made then was the Pro Linebacker Twin, which is solid state. There is an older vertical 60W 2x12” in the Supergroup series and another solid-state one, but neither have anything like enough gain for the Money For Nothing sound.

Knopfler was actually using quite high-gain amps then, he had a Mesa Caliber Series and then a Soldano SLO100... the AOR100 would fit right into that slot, like the SLO it’s also a Marshall-derived circuit with extra gain stages.

I worked for a shop with a Laney dealership around then, by the way - not actually in 1985, but from about 1987 onwards. I remember the ranges quite clearly - they were not perceived as cool or high quality either, so it’s a bit of a surprise to find someone like Knopfler using one.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

AFAIR guys (but I stand to be corrected) I think the AOR100 was only made as a head. There's a cheap AOR Pro combo which isn't the same thing. MK used a 2x12 combo, and I think the only all valve Laney 2x12 valve combos at that time were the VC, LC and GH series.

Sorry, wrong on both points! They definitely made a 2x12” AOR100 combo, and no other valve 2x12” at the time - the LC, VC and GH series are all later. The only other 2x12” they made then was the Pro Linebacker Twin, which is solid state. There is an older vertical 60W 2x12” in the Supergroup series and another solid-state one, but neither have anything like enough gain for the Money For Nothing sound.

Knopfler was actually using quite high-gain amps then, he had a Mesa Caliber Series and then a Soldano SLO100... the AOR100 would fit right into that slot, like the SLO it’s also a Marshall-derived circuit with extra gain stages.

I worked for a shop with a Laney dealership around then, by the way - not actually in 1985, but from about 1987 onwards. I remember the ranges quite clearly - they were not perceived as cool or high quality either, so it’s a bit of a surprise to find someone like Knopfler using one.

Quite right @ICBM ; 're the later ranges..time playing tricks with my memory  the vc15 and gh were 95 not 85. But my best understanding is that the AO pro tube combo was different to the head? 

ICBM

Voxman said:

Quite right @ICBM ;;; 're the later ranges..time playing tricks with my memory  the vc15 and gh were 95 not 85. But my best understanding is that the AO pro tube combo was different to the head? 

It has reverb, but is otherwise the same.



I have to say I have no idea why they seem to have something of a following/value now - they were shit then, and they still are. Dreadful build quality from the flimsy PCBs to the chipboard cabinets and horrible tolex, unreliable and really not great sounding. How Knopfler managed to get the MFN tone out of one, even with a wah, random mic placement and pure luck, is a mystery to me...

[/sneaking in deliberate Dire Straits reference]

If I had to choose between one and a Linebacker, I would take the Linebacker - really.