vintage guitars with factory seconds stamps

bloomer

I've been getting the GAS for a vintage es 330 and came across this specimen at guncotton: https://www.guncottonguitars.com/1964-gibson-es330-tdc

At the end of the description it mentions that it's been stamped as a factory second due to some finish imperfections on the back. How do factory second stamps on vintage guitars tend to impact the value? 

Lodious

As long as the factory isn't Music Ground, I think it's fine.

guitars4you

There use to be a joke years ago that all Gibson Guitars had a 2nd finish - You'd find some blemish somewhere on the gloss finish

Today such an original factory blemish is probably impossible to spot, as it will have just merged in with regular day to day wear 'n' tear - So assuming the rest of the guitar has no issues, repairs, changes etc then I don't really see why it should have any impact on its value

ICBM

In those days, Gibson would stamp them as a second, but you could never find the fault. Now it’s the other way round!

Old but true...



I don’t think it makes any difference to the value.

ten77guitar

Jeez those have gone up in value. You could have bought one like that for half the price a few years ago.

Andy79

I don’t know that  place but the prices seem high. 1960 Harmony Stratotone for 1200 is super expensive 

bloomer

thanks just wondered if it might be a point of negotiation but agree that any factory finish flaw would be insignificant anyway compared to the rest of the wear and tear. I certainly don't care if its a factory second.

The estimated price of a 1962 es330 td is £2800 on reverb but UK dealers have them up around £6500. Are people actually paying these prices or is it usual for the dealer to accept an offer of considerably less?  

guitars4you

bloomer said:

The estimated price of a 1962 es330 td is £2800 on reverb but UK dealers have them up around £6500. Are people actually paying these prices or is it usual for the dealer to accept an offer of considerably less?  

It will of course depend on how good an example it is - Originality, condition, repairs and even the fact is it a good player - You can get a 40/50% variation based on originality - Without looking at specific examples so as an overview £2800 sounds to cheap and £6500 sounds high

However in vintage terms a 330 is far more affordable, compared to the price of a 335 of the same era - As such collectors you can't afford the ultra high prices of old Strats, 335's Les Pauls etc, will look towards such guitars - Which in turn will ensure a price increase and a shortage as time moves on

clarkefan

ICBM said:

In those days, Gibson would stamp them as a second, but you could never find the fault.

This is true.  There seemed to be a standard or something in Gibson back in the day that decided if a finish didn't meet it the guitar would be stamped.  I've had numerous vintage examples in my hands and could never detect what the hell the problem was supposed to be. 

Philly_Q

I think the whole concept of seconds is quite charmingly old-fashioned. 

We've made this thing, it's not perfect but it's fit for purpose and it would be silly to waste it, so we'll sell it but we're going to be really honest and draw your attention to the fact it's a "second".

Nowadays they'd either say "meh, close enough" or run over it with a tractor and put it on YouTube.

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

I think the whole concept of seconds is quite charmingly old-fashioned. 

We've made this thing, it's not perfect but it's fit for purpose and it would be silly to waste it, so we'll sell it but we're going to be really honest and draw your attention to the fact it's a "second".

Nowadays they'd either say "meh, close enough" or run over it with a tractor and put it on YouTube.

No, they use the tractors on things that were built perfectly, but designed by idiots. They just ship the seconds.