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How to deal with a band member for the benefit of the band?

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  • Danny1969 said:
    In the Kate Bush band I use a midi keyboard into a Macbook Pro running Protools and VI's ....... It's very easy to set up mapping keys so on one patch I can have 4 different sounds all mapped to different key ranges ... so I can play the different parts with different sounds  without switching patches. The keyboard is big it's self though because I like the octave  range for piano and it's weighted plus hard cased. Never used a keyboard amp, main outs always straight into PA and then headhone outs into my mixer then IEM's ...... so even if the sound engineer accidentally mutes my aux sends I can still hear myself independently of what they are doing. 
    My keys either go to my Yam DSR 12 as backline (smaller venues) or direct to desk, but I take my own feed from my little sub mixer for monitoring - I can add vocals and AFX to that as well.  Could work.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    edited February 2020

    I could probably cover moist stuff on my FA07
    Ooer, sounds a bit rude
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  • Mm. Don't want to get fluids in your keyboard, that's asking for trouble. 
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  • Oh, and so as not to just be a drive-by snarker, it strikes me that when you know what you want, everything else is logistics - if or when an opportunity comes round to double up that you really want to take I'm sure you'll find ways to work it out - it might not be ideal, but it's enough to get the job done. It also seems to me that what you've done is identified what you want to do and what you don't want to do, and it doesn't sound like the current band offers enough of the former to put up with too much of the latter. 

    Good luck!
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    p90fool said:
    Tbh, much as I like my gear, if I was doubling on keys and guitar in a covers band I'd strip it back to a single keyboard/module and a guitar modeller, both going into my own small PA/monitor system.
    I run an AFX2, but tend to go power amp and cab - because I much prefer the sound BUT I could go direct FRFR and use the same PA cab as the keys (Yamaha DSR12).  I could probably cover moist stuff on my FA07 keyboard as well.  Pianos are better on the RD and that has a weighted board.  Organs are much better via my legend module, and I have a proper synth in the Peak that does a lot of stuff better than the FA - BUT the FA could probably do 95% of the stuff well enough and cover the other 5% to some degree, so I could get away with that.  If I stand rather than sit (that I do for piano pedals), I could narrow it it:

    1 lightweight X stand
    Roland FA076 (which is a lot lighter than the RD)
    4U rack with AFX, Wireless and Midi controller (for the AFX live)
    Floor board (for AFX control)
    1 Guitar stand, and 2 guitars (1 as backup).
    Mic and Mic stand (yes I sing as well, but not when I play keys)

    Couple of bags/boxs with power and cabling plus backups.   that would fit.
    I know it's less than ideal in terms of perfect tones, but any decent band would snap you up like a shot with that set-up. 

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  • Latest update.  It is better, but only a little.

    Put mics on drums, and DI'd everything else to a desk this week - rather than a mic in a room.  I have balanced the tracks and added some reverb in my DAW (and some on the guitar as his amps reverb is broken - though hes getting a pedal for next week).

    https://soundcloud.com/user-75335753/died-in-your-arms
    https://soundcloud.com/user-75335753/planet-earth
    https://soundcloud.com/user-75335753/to-cut-a-long-story-short-3

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  • CeeJayCeeJay Frets: 455
    I'm gonna be brutally honest here. As a punter, I could happily listen to the music. The singer would have me looking for the exit. Sorry.
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  • Dont be sorry - There my feelings exactly.

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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 2316
    The vocals are pretty awful. Guitar needs to sort his sounds out imo.  Guitar sounds horrible, the notes are generally right apart from some notable gaffs but it doesn’t sound good and the actual sound of the guitar is hideous.   I play quite a few 80s songs in bands  and deliberately don’t try to emulate the sound. imo the instruments in the 80s more often than not sound like shit and it works better if you just try and get a decent tone. 

    It doesn’t sound like a tight band but it takes a number of gigs to get tight, so could get better.  Get a female vocalist, they are far more versatile.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627

    Vocals definitely the weak link but what you need to sort out are your band politics / organisation.  Bands need leadership, as does any team, but that's not the same as one person being the boss.  Unless the Bass Player is ‘employing’ the rest of the band then there needs to be consensus.  Without being there, and having the full picture, I don’t know if it’s all ‘his fault’ so I would suggest that you try to get to the bottom of his reasons for not accepting that you need a new vocalist (you speculated in your original post that it might be because he’s been let down by singers in the past).

    Knowing where he’s coming from is important in deciding upon the best way to approach him.  Ultimately, if you can’t sort it out, then don’t waste your time – move on, or move him on.

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  • I'm not as "down" on this as some - i felt that there was improvement and progression since last time.
    However- i can't hear any bv's ? This would help the overall sound and take the pressure off the singing bass player.
    The Cutting crew song i am very familiar with and as per the last demos I "warmed" to it and had a couple of listens - as a very nitpicky technical point (please feel free to ignore!) keyboards are resolving the chord around " i can't find another way to get out of here" in the verse which i don't think it does on the record.
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  • paulmapp8306paulmapp8306 Frets: 831
    edited February 2020
    Ill have a listen - but I think your right about the resolution.  

    No BV as we only had one spare channel for the mic, as we used 4 for the drums (wont be mic'ing the drums live with 4 mics - venue's will be too small initially, and well have a bigger desk when we do).

    RE band politics.  I did have a chat with the bassist on our own.  Hes adamant he doest want a male vocalist - I think he doesnt JUST want to be the bass player.  Hes also adamant he DOES want female vocalist - which is the first Ive heard.

    However,  firstly he doesnt want a female singing a male led song (dont see why personally) and wants to get the band gigging in pubs and see if the songs/sets actually work.  He doesnt want to bring that vocalist in - ditch half (or more) of out current songs to learn new ones for her - and for the project not to work of for the songs we learn not to work.

    Not quite sure how I feel about that.  Positive he wants a female vocalist, but does mean if we keep out best (IMO) songs then hell still be singing (and murdering) plenty.

    Echo Beach, and Brass in Pocket are already female led songs so thats OK, we do know Thorn in my side but it didnt work so far away from the original key - so that could come back.  there are plenty I wouldnt mind ditching.  Road to hell, White Wedding, Walk of Life, Feels like Heaven, Happy Hour (which I actually sing), Road to Nowhere, Possibly Addicted to Love.

    Basically thats replacing 9 of the songs (either by swapping vocals or replacing songs).  Just under half the set.   If I can persuade him to let the female sing some of the male songs (the Duran Songs, Live it Up, Power of Love) then I could probably live with it.    Correct Female BVs on Real Gone Kid and some of the others will lift those songs too. 

    BUT I think we need to just bring that vocalist in - and let her bed in with what we have (taking some leads) and learning new ones for her specifically over the next few moinths.






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  • paulmapp8306paulmapp8306 Frets: 831
    edited February 2020
    Oh - the guitar sound.  Yes its not great on those, but there via the DI out and it sounds pretty decent in the room.....

    I think its just down to his kit and not knowing how to tune it to its best maybe.  Its a Marshall Valvestate, which Ive never really liked personally.  

    I am going to his this week - firstly to work on Hungrys middle 8 - and also to play with his setup.  (he does have a couple of drive pedals as well).  Im hoping to be able to take the harshness out and fatten/smooth it a bit- but ??
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited February 2020
    Vocals - Kill Him
    Guitar needs a lot of work, sound is awful and feel definitely lacking
    bass / drums need work but not a lots cause
    keys are great
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I don't think the guitar sound is bad at all - it's too high in the mix on Died In Your Arms, and doesn't have enough sustain or reverb, but the actual tone is fine. The playing is too stilted on Planet Earth.

    The drums are too compressed and boxy, and it affects the whole mix.

    The vocals are terrible - if he can listen to himself on To Cut A Long Story Short and not realise that he's completely out of his depth, I don't know what will convince him.

    (Disclaimer: I can't sing at all - but then again I don't try...)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • paulmapp8306paulmapp8306 Frets: 831
    edited February 2020
    To be fair, cut a long story is the guitarist.  He wants to normally sing at all, but bassist wants to split the vocals for variety and so he gets a break.

    Wont/cant sing the whole set, wont bring someone else in (yet).....

    And the mix/compression is my fault.  But it was only a quick level and punch mix.  
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    Stop blaming yourself.  The mix is the least of the problems, the guitar, bass, drums are okish the vocals are bad pub band level.  As a keyboard player you’d certainly find bend a lot better than that with relative ease
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    If you can do guitar, keys and bvox and have a compact AxeFX rig that can go to PA you are function band gold and you should be playing in a really top end band charging £1K+ per gig.

    That lot are going to struggle to get £200 at the dog and duck.
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  • paulmapp8306paulmapp8306 Frets: 831
    edited February 2020
    My afx is on a 4u rack with a L6 g90 receiver, and s 1u midi controller (for quick amp like tweeking) along with an mc101 on the deck.  

    Guitar selection is prs cu22, suhr modern  ta cobra s or select strat, whatever suits.

    I use a yam dsr for personal monitoring so could send the lot direct, and could go in ear quite easily.

    Keys rig is big but its quick to out up/down and is no bigger than a single board (as it tiers vertically).  I have an rd200 stage piano, fa07 workstation, peak analogue module and legend organ module.  Wouldnt need them all, but the modules dont take much space and mount in seconds.

    Vocally I can do bvox.  I have a beta57 or beyer tgv70 ( suits my voice better but the beta57 is lighter/less full for bvs).

    Maybe I should consider putting together a guitar/keys/vocal and monitor setup that I can load I'm the car and go that way.


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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
    How on earth is a bassist holding you all to ransom?. Literally anyone can play bass! 
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