Do you hire an engineer for live shows or do it yourself ?

Moltisanti

Just in the process of putting a new band together for functions etc, I play guitar and sing quite a lot which takes up enough of my concentration.
I also am the person with the PA so I end up sorting out the desk at rehearsal which is OK, but when we play out I don;t want to be trying to engineer a live mix while performing.

Do those of you who play out in bands like this hire in a PA/Engineer or do you DIY it ?

And why does the guitarist always end up doing this stuff ???

markslade07

We DIY it, though I wish we didn’t. It’s a pain in the arse and whatever happens during soundcheck will probably become null and void when the punters start turning up and the sound in the room changes. That’s when tweaking one the fly becomes almost impossible. We’re not really in a position to pay someone 1/5 of the fee unless it’s a big gig so think we’ll carry on like it for now, but I might well buy a wireless kit soon to make it a smidge easier

markslade07

This was my thread about the same thing....some good advice here
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/170012/how-do-you-soundcheck-with-no-sound-engineer#latest

Moltisanti

nice one, i'll check it out

Danny1969

We hire engineers ... we have one regular guy but if he's cup-tied with something else (FOH engineers need to earn and sometimes there's more money on the table elsewhere) then there's 2 other guys we have used who have done us before so have patches saved. With digital the engineer will generally save his mix to a patch under the venue name on the desk then if he's called to do it again he can just bring that up and just tweak it from there rather than start from scratch. 

Occasionally no one's available .... like Saturday just gone we did a private birthday  party and no engineer was available so I did my best with the desk to the side of the stage where I was standing. I doubt it was great ....you really can't tell shit mix wise from the stage and anyone who says it's fine doing it that way has probably got used to unprofessional mix standards. You can get some kind of rough balance that's valid for one kind of song and that's about it. If your a one guitar band playing the same kind of rock all night you can get away with it but when you have multiple guitars, 4 vocal harmonies and keys varying from piano to strings to playing horn parts you really need someone mixing it ....  as it needs to change form song to song. 

So slightly more money each on Sat but I would much rather have had £25 less each and someone decent mixing it out front on an iPad where they can actually hear what's going on 

sw67

We do our own sound but it has issues. We have a bass player we think is turning up and drowning out the rest of the band. Its fine at soundcheck when the pubs are quiet. Is the bass being too loud due to the pub filling up. i would love to have a engineer but its not practical.

uncledick

I'm the same as @Moltisanti, Been playing in various bands since the 70s and have only had a sound engineer on 2 occasions.  Wireless guitar is essential so you can wander around the room when you start playing.  We're a 7 piece covers band and the normal pub gigs pay £150 so it doesn't quite stack up to get someone else on board.

ESBlonde

Hire in someone.

If it's a 3 or 4 piece band of very experienced musicians that can maintain levels and effectively mix the stage sound pre PA, then the DIY route is possible. Otherwise you need a safe pair of hands and ears out front.

Bigger/less experienced ensambles need a steady hand on the tiller. Even if you set up the mix at soundcheck things will change and you won't know.

Stuckfast

sw67 said:

We do our own sound but it has issues. We have a bass player we think is turning up and drowning out the rest of the band. Its fine at soundcheck when the pubs are quiet. Is the bass being too loud due to the pub filling up. i would love to have a engineer but its not practical.

As the pub fills up mid and high frequencies will be absorbed more easily than low frequencies so yes it's possible the balance could change so that the bass sticks out.

Danny1969

Stuckfast said:

sw67 said:

We do our own sound but it has issues. We have a bass player we think is turning up and drowning out the rest of the band. Its fine at soundcheck when the pubs are quiet. Is the bass being too loud due to the pub filling up. i would love to have a engineer but its not practical.

As the pub fills up mid and high frequencies will be absorbed more easily than low frequencies so yes it's possible the balance could change so that the bass sticks out.

Also assuming it's a cleanish bass sound then the bass player might just be digging in when harder once the gigs underway ... and thus louder ... very common with drummers too, they get excited they get louder. 

robmac5150

Danny1969 said:

Stuckfast said:

sw67 said:

We do our own sound but it has issues. We have a bass player we think is turning up and drowning out the rest of the band. Its fine at soundcheck when the pubs are quiet. Is the bass being too loud due to the pub filling up. i would love to have a engineer but its not practical.

As the pub fills up mid and high frequencies will be absorbed more easily than low frequencies so yes it's possible the balance could change so that the bass sticks out.

Also assuming it's a cleanish bass sound then the bass player might just be digging in when harder once the gigs underway ... and thus louder ... very common with drummers too, they get excited they get louder. 

......like a young child ;-) lol. 

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

Stuckfast said:

sw67 said:

We do our own sound but it has issues. We have a bass player we think is turning up and drowning out the rest of the band. Its fine at soundcheck when the pubs are quiet. Is the bass being too loud due to the pub filling up. i would love to have a engineer but its not practical.

As the pub fills up mid and high frequencies will be absorbed more easily than low frequencies so yes it's possible the balance could change so that the bass sticks out.

Also assuming it's a cleanish bass sound then the bass player might just be digging in when harder once the gigs underway ... and thus louder ... very common with drummers too, they get excited they get louder. 

Saying a drummer gets louder implies that they are ever quiet..or not deafening. 

rico

uncledick said:

I'm the same as @Moltisanti, Been playing in various bands since the 70s and have only had a sound engineer on 2 occasions.  Wireless guitar is essential so you can wander around the room when you start playing.  We're a 7 piece covers band and the normal pub gigs pay £150 so it doesn't quite stack up to get someone else on board.

You need to find some better paying venues. £150 would be pushing it for a duo!

Danny1969

rico said:

uncledick said:

I'm the same as @Moltisanti, Been playing in various bands since the 70s and have only had a sound engineer on 2 occasions.  Wireless guitar is essential so you can wander around the room when you start playing.  We're a 7 piece covers band and the normal pub gigs pay £150 so it doesn't quite stack up to get someone else on board.

You need to find some better paying venues. £150 would be pushing it for a duo!

To be fair £150 was a good earn for a 7 piece band .... in the seventies !!
Might want to ask for a raise now though, inflation and all that !

koneguitarist

Always did it myself unless its an outdoor festival where they hire in PA and sound.     
It depends on the band and the amount of equipment used and how capable you are a musicians. 
Its not rocket science.