Kit vs New vs Second hand for modding

MartinBush

Hi all

I feel I should learn more about the technical side of guitar - how setting up works, basic repairs etc and wondered what people thought of what I think are the options for someone on a budget like me.

I am keen to try out a tele type guitar.

I know you can get kit guitars from places like StewMac which I get the impression would give me a good grounding in assembly.

I am also looking at Bullet Teles which seem to be about the same price new which, while being fully assembled, could present a good opportunity to upgrade parts and rectify some manufacturing issues. The attraction of this is that, providing I don't ruin it, I could return it to original spec and sell on if I wanted to upgrade in future.

Finally there's the second-hand route. To be honest I've not seen a second hand guitar on ebay etc that is priced keenly enough. Everyone seems to want close to full price for used Bullet and Affinity guitars. 

I can solder and have all the kit for that, as well as the usual screwdrivers etc, but I don't have any guitar specific files, so I know this would have to be factored in too.

Hope that makes sense... over to you

Martin

WezV

The problem with most kits is the quality of parts.   a Squier Bullet will actually be better in this regard, if the mustang i have just picked up is anything to go by

I do have a soft spot for kits though, although i accept it may make more sense to go down the partscaster route after the modding stage, as most end up changing most parts on a kit.

Start by modding an existing guitar, even if its just taking it apart, putting it back together and making it play as good as you can.  (learning how to do a  fretdress is far more valuable than learning how  to change a pickup at this point)

Then try assembling a kit or partscaster.... Then build one from planks of wood.   

guitars4you

WezV said:

Start by modding an existing guitar, even if its just taking it apart, putting it back together and making it play as good as you can.  (learning how to do a  fretdress is far more valuable than learning how  to change a pickup at this point)
  

agree with this - How to make a budget copy play better is a good place to start and/or buy a cheap copy - Try your local charity shops, money loan shops etc as they sometimes have a 'disposable' cheap copies - Or even some of the guitar shows throughout the UK

One issue for many is the cost and need of say specific top nut files, fret files etc - For many they will only use them once or twice

MartinBush

Thanks chaps. 

There's a guy called Philip Knight on YouTube that I find produces clear and helpful videos. Of course the challenge is translating the videos of an expert into good results yourself

WezV

guitars4you said:

One issue for many is the cost and need of say specific top nut files, fret files etc - For many they will only use them once or twice

Its true, they will certainly be needed for a  kit guitar.

I have yet to find a suitable cheap alternative to proper nut slotting files that can give proper results, but you don't need a full set, just a few  to get going. 

You can get great results on frets with very few "proper"  fret tools, as long as the neck is in a reasonable state to begin with.  Again, its a good reason to start with an existing guitar that's close to playable

MartinBush

I guess the next question would be what tools should I be looking for and in what order?

Nut files, for instance, appear to either be very expensive or suspiciously cheap depending on where you look. 

CeeJay

MartinBush said:

I guess the next question would be what tools should I be looking for and in what order?

Nut files, for instance, appear to either be very expensive or suspiciously cheap depending on where you look. 

When I was modding my Pacifica, I bought some nut files off e bay for £5.99. When they arrived I burst out laughing and threw them in the bin! I should know better at my age!

ICBM

The biggest problem with kits is that the parts often don't fit properly and need a fair amount of work to make them do so. If you buy a finished guitar, you know at least that will all be taken care of, more or less - although if you change any of the parts the same applies, and some guitars (especially cheaper ones) don't even use standard-sized parts.

For example just this morning I was fitting a bridge humbucker to a customer's Fender Strat - he'd bought an aftermarket pickguard cut for one, but firstly the pickup wouldn't quite go through the hole in the guard because the pickup is covered and so slightly larger than a normal open-coil humbucker, and secondly the pickup did not quite line up with the body cavity even though it's routed for a humbucker - so I had to file the hole in the guard larger, and skim about 1mm off the cavity wall on one side with a router. Plus the pickup height screws were too long for the depth of the body rout so I had to cut them down.

Without experience to spot and solve problems like that the easiest way and the right tools do do it neatly, it can be challenging to make a good job of assembling a kit, or even modding a guitar. But if you're willing to learn on the job and have some basic skills with tools, it's possible to make it work.... just expect it to take five times as long as you think it will . And if you start with a cheap Strat-type guitar, it's hard to ruin anything too expensive.

axisus

I learned a lot by just dismantling guitars I had. I would buy relatively cheap secondhand guitars and literally take them apart into as many separate pieces as possible. I would examine stuff to see how it worked, how bridges could be adjusted etc, clean everything up and reassemble.

ICBM

axisus said:

I learned a lot by just dismantling guitars I had. I would buy relatively cheap secondhand guitars and literally take them apart into as many separate pieces as possible. I would examine stuff to see how it worked, how bridges could be adjusted etc, clean everything up and reassemble.

You are James May and I claim my £5!

paulnb57

As an addicted partscasterer, if I was starting again, I would buy a cheap Squier, but not necessarily a Bullet as they often have non standard “Fender” size parts eg the Tele I believe has a unique bridge plate, the Strat has a unique Scratchplate, so it makes modding a bit harder, if what you have has parts interchangeability it makes life so much easier...

clarkefan

Feels like you're trying to run before you can walk imo. 

Why do you need files for the basics? You'd be better off going on a course to learn about working on frets and nuts, that's proper craftsmanship.

But before that learn about setting up a guitar, that at least will teach you the mechanics.  Plenty of books and youtube vids available on what's involved.

MartinBush

I may be trying to run before I can walk - I think people have taken different approaches to things from what I've read so far. 

I cant afford to go on a course and while I can do the electronics I'd like to be able to do a few other jobs too. I have no grand plans of becoming a luthier, I just want to be a little bit more capable. Setting up, as you say, will be part of it. 

axisus

ICBM said:

axisus said:

I learned a lot by just dismantling guitars I had. I would buy relatively cheap secondhand guitars and literally take them apart into as many separate pieces as possible. I would examine stuff to see how it worked, how bridges could be adjusted etc, clean everything up and reassemble.

You are James May and I claim my £5!

I'm as old as him, as un handsome as him, but less interesting

clarkefan

MartinBush said:

I may be trying to run before I can walk - I think people have taken different approaches to things from what I've read so far. 

I cant afford to go on a course and while I can do the electronics I'd like to be able to do a few other jobs too. I have no grand plans of becoming a luthier, I just want to be a little bit more capable. Setting up, as you say, will be part of it. 

No offense meant, I hope you didn't take it that way.

Donkeys years ago in my SRV days I bought big ass frets and went at it on my Strat, bought the tools blah blah.

Finally a friend rescued me and introduced me to someone who actually knew about fretwork who cleaned up the mess and turned a car crash into a great thing (Bass Gallery in London if they're still about).

There's so much involved.

Keefy

A few years ago I bought a set of nut files from Stewmac in the USA. I took a fair old hit on import duties but regardless, this has been one of my best buys. I started off working on a Vintage LP copy but since then I have used them on nearly all my guitars including 3 Custom Shop instruments from Fender and Gibson.

MartinBush

No offence taken. All I really want to do is get, say, a Squier Tele, play it and if I find sharp fret ends to be able to sort those out. Possibly change the tuners etc. It would be a gradual process. I'm also interested in trying out some rather heavier gauge strings which, and I may be wrong, inthink might require more than just putting them on.

A kit seemed like a cheap way to go about it via another route, but it seems to be both cheap and littered with problems! I think I'd rather avoid owning a badly put together no name plank

guitars4you

MartinBush said:

I may be trying to run before I can walk - I think people have taken different approaches to things from what I've read so far. 

I cant afford to go on a course and while I can do the electronics I'd like to be able to do a few other jobs too. I have no grand plans of becoming a luthier, I just want to be a little bit more capable. Setting up, as you say, will be part of it. 

There are various skills and techniques that some have and others don't - I can set-up a guitar to perform better than it is and most of this is about 'simple adjustments' and only requires simple/conventional tools - I can't handle what I call surgery work - Re-fret, broken necks, refin etc etc - A lot of simple work can improve many guitars no end and again start on a budget guitar and then take it from there

rossi

A Squier SE from Gumtree is a good start .Usually very cheap ( £30+) always with a string missing .Full size  so Fender parts fit .Look for The STRAT logo on headstock.A great way to learn and its not at all a bad instrument after a set up and pickup do dahs.

TTony

I’ll throw in another 2p’s worth.

What you choose to do depends a lot on what you want to achieve longer-term.

Starting with a kit will be a steeper learning curve because you’ll probably encounter more issues with fit and component quality that will need sorting.  But once you’ve dealt with those, you’ll have learned a lot of skills that would help in future if you had any vague thoughts about building your own.

Starting with something new might be disappointing in that many (not all!) new guitars are pretty playable straight out of the box, so limited need / benefit from using those as a starting point for set-ups.  You might do more harm than good.

So, s/h.  But again, you don’t want something loved that’s been looked after (and set-up decently!).

Car boots?  Something sold as an honest project?  But keep in mind that not all faults can be easily fixed with a set-up.  If the neck is warped ... if the bridge is in the wrong place ... if .... if ... (etc).

Tools ...

A soldering iron is all you really need for most of the electrics,  Nothing too hard.

Assuming that you’ve no interest (atm) in refinishing, that really leaves playability.

• Get the neck straight.
• Make sure frets are level, crowned, properly seated and no rough ends.
• Get the nut slots cut correctly.
• Make sure it’s intonated properly.

For that lot you need a proper straight edge, fret files, nut files, and a decent tuner.  I spent a lot of money buying Stewmac’s kit a good few years ago.  They all still work fine, and have done many jobs, so cost per job isn’t quite so bad.  

If you really think you’ll only use them once or twice, then that’ll be an expensive approach, and you’d do better (IMHO) by spending some money on a course of some kind.

stimpsonslostson

There was a "mod a Harley Benton" challenge a few years ago. 
The general thinking seemed to be the base guitars were rather good. 

I've still got mine- it started as a TE52. I modded quite a lot & everything I bought fit just fine. It's been my main guitar for several years & I doubt I'd ever part with it.