Do you need a desk with 2 Aux sends to have 2 monitor mixes ?

Moltisanti

For example if i wanted a clone of FOH in a wedge for me and a different mix with more vocals for my singer using IEMs would i need a desk with 2 dedicated AUX sends ?

JMP220478

what desk do you have currently ?   it may have different ways to achieve your goals - also does vocalist use desk to process voice ie reverb / delay / compression or is he using a pedal / rack unit which could feed IEMs ? 

Legionreturns

If you just want the FOH mix in one, you coukd in theory split that off without using your aux mix, using one of the alternative outputs. (Control room / phones etc) leaving your aux mix, with specific levels set for the singer. 

Might require careful balancing to avoid feedback though. 

Moltisanti

i've only got a tiny Behringer desk at the moment with built in FX and it has no AUX send at all, just an FX send that i'm assuming i can;t use to feed a monitor.

I'm looking at buying a new desk, but ones with 2 x AUX sends are way more expensive than ones with one.

Good call on using another out for the FOH clone, i would think CTRL RM OUT would work for this in theory right ?

octatonic

How many channels do you need?
You can get a 14 channel Mackie with 2 Aux sends for about £200.

paulmapp8306

And if you need more stereo inputs, The Yamaha MG12 has 4 mono and 4 stereo inputs, with 2 Aux sends is £200 from GAK at present.

Danny1969

The Soundcraft UI12 is only £205 .... that's a digital mixer with 12 inputs, 2 aux sends, remote control from phone etc

Or get the Behringer MA400 for £20 ..... then the singers vocal plugs into that and then the pass thru socket goes to the desk. This means he can set up his vocal level independently of the desk 

Moltisanti

thanks for the suggestions i'll have a look

for the MA400 - (forgive my ignorance I'm new to PA stuff) can the singer take a headphone feed from that as a IEM source separate from the main feed which goes to the desk as normal ?

Danny1969

IMoltisanti said:

thanks for the suggestions i'll have a look

for the MA400 - (forgive my ignorance I'm new to PA stuff) can the singer take a headphone feed from that as a IEM source separate from the main feed which goes to the desk as normal ?

I've done a sophisticated drawing for you :0 



Basically in this setup singer can have mon feed from desk but independent vocal level 

Moltisanti

haha that picture is ace

OK so the singer is getting the MON mix + their own vocal in the IEMs with independent volumes, and the desk gets the mic signal as normal. That sounds like a great solution that i totally hadn't considered, thanks!

shufflebeat

If your desk has a headphone output it's also possible to connect directly by using adaptors (1/4" TRS jack plug to XRLf + XLRm to TRS  jack socket) either end of  XLR (mic) lead. I use this in an emergency on a multicore which stretches right across the stage with no issues.

*Very important point*

Any solution which doesn't involve don't kind of EQ and audio limiting is a very efficient way to permanently destroy your hearing.

John_A

If you just want to clone FOH just run the desk in mono with one side feeding FOH and the other feeding the monitor

Moltisanti

ok i got the little MA400 headphone amp and tested it out, and it works great. Is there a way of getting a limiter in the signal path (not sure how this would work for the mic in) just in case of a thump etc ?

Danny1969

You can't limit the volume output of a headphone amp without designing it knowing the exact impedance and frequency response and sensitivity of the IEM's .....  sp basically no one is using limited IEM's even if they think they are.  

I've been on IEM's for nearly ten years ...... just keep the volume down and don't insert them until everything is up and running. Then you won't be under any more risk than using them on an ipod.  Basically mix down, not up !

shufflebeat

Danny1969 said:

You can't limit the volume output of a headphone amp without designing it knowing the exact impedance and frequency response and sensitivity of the IEM's .....  sp basically no one is using limited IEM's even if they think they are.  

I've been on IEM's for nearly ten years ...... just keep the volume down and don't insert them until everything is up and running. Then you won't be under any more risk than using them on an ipod.  Basically mix down, not up !

Strongly disagree.

1) Of course you can limit a headphone amp, you just can't accurately predict the numbers without the further info described. You can, however, give it a good go by ear.

2 )Mastered music played on an iPod, etc. has normally been limited at several stages in the process. As a result there is usually little dynamic range (depending on genre). 

Unprocessed signals coming from diverse sources can have relatively huge dynamic range even in normal, controlled use, well within the possibility of permanent hearing damage.

...and then someone unplugs a DI or condenser using phantom power...