Behringer Air mixers? XR18 in particular

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  • would you not have the drums into their own dedicated smaller desk then run the whole thing into the main mixer as one channel ?

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    would you not have the drums into their own dedicated smaller desk then run the whole thing into the main mixer as one channel ?
    No, if you do that you can only adjust the level of the drums in your IEM's as a whole kit, everyone tends to want a different drum mix so it wouldn't really work .
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • I get the track thing, but for us we will only even need one way to record - we have bass/guitar, one keys feed (thats pre/mixed) 3 voices and the drums (normally only kick/snare).

    Most I might need would be 6 keys (if I go stereo and separate into desk), 3 vox, guitar and bass - which is 11.  That still leaves 5 for drums - so kick, snare, hi-hat, and a pair of overheads OR a pair on toms.    I think Id have enough

    I get needing more though - and the UI24 does solve that v going to the 32 for the behringer.

    #i like the Ui is a browser GUI and not an app as well - but it has other issues apparently - a lot of concern over the nose floor on the pre-amps from what Ive read.
      
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    Yeah it's horse's for courses. I would always mic the toms before using overheads at smaller gigs. Simply because condensor overhead mics in a small space will pick up everything as well including guitars and bass  as the toms and hi hat  \ cymbals etc. 
    According to the blurb the Ui uses the same mic preamps as the 2K Si Expression and to be honest you only need a 12 pence transistor and a good performing couple of dual opamps like some NE5532's or similar to make a very good performing first stage mic pre with very low noise floor. After that it hits the AD convertor so if they have fucked that up then that's pretty poor. 

    The spec for less than £600 is pretty impressive but I'll wait till I've used it before recommending it. I'm going to cat 5 it to an imac with a home made touch screen so the wireless won't be an issue at least. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Danny1969 said:
    would you not have the drums into their own dedicated smaller desk then run the whole thing into the main mixer as one channel ?
    No, if you do that you can only adjust the level of the drums in your IEM's as a whole kit, everyone tends to want a different drum mix so it wouldn't really work .
    fuck that, if people want dedicated drum mixes they can set it up themselves :) you get all the drums or none

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  • Danny1969 said:
    would you not have the drums into their own dedicated smaller desk then run the whole thing into the main mixer as one channel ?
    No, if you do that you can only adjust the level of the drums in your IEM's as a whole kit, everyone tends to want a different drum mix so it wouldn't really work .
    fuck that, if people want dedicated drum mixes they can set it up themselves :) you get all the drums or none
    In my band you pretty much get all the drums...all the time....at full volume...constantly...even when you're trying to talk..

    I thought that was pretty normal?
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    I specifically want to select which drums I get in my mix. Those are the ones I synchronise to. With some drummers it’s the snare, with some it’s the hat.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • GrahamGGrahamG Frets: 87
    That could well be a deal breaker.

    Obviously not if I use the laptop live as I could use Cat5, nor for home use as the tablet would be directly in front of the XR - with the PC via Cat 5 being used 95% of the time  - but yeh for walking out front and mixing for a tablet not great news.  
    Small world,i was just about to start a thread about a suitable computer solution for our XR18,so if you don't mind i'll crash into your thread =) 
    At the present I use my Windows 10 laptop for main mixing & an old I-pad,I also use a separate router so I can run the XR wired & the I-pad wi-fi( for a bit of out front before the gig starts)(we're a 3 piece Pub band & I mix from stage),this set up is reliable but for me neither controller works well enough & this was the subject for a thread,so here goes.
    Trying to use the software with the Laptop(15" screen) mouse or mousepad is way to fiddly & slow at a gig,it really needs to be touchscreen.
    Using the I-pad(6.5")with the mixing station app is also not really suitable for gigging use,the app won't display a full mix window & as far as I can tell,the group mute function doesn't work with mixing station,so for instance Vox effects can't be muted with one button touch(as far as I can tell),so really a touch screen laptop with a minimum 15" screen is really required.
    ,it seems to me that the ideal solution for on stage mixing is the Windows app & a Touch Screen (Wired & Wi-Fi) laptop
    So what are people where using at a gig for controlling the XR ?
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  • I have a cheap Asus laptop hardwired which is just there for a backup. I mainly use an iPad mini to control everything. I find the iOS app better for me.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    GrahamG said:
    ... So what are people where using at a gig for controlling the XR ?
    Two iPads, mine and the bass player’s. We have a Mac hardwired into the XR for two reasons. First we record all our gigs from the desk to the Mac for later mix down to stereo. Secondly, it’s there if we were to get a complete WiFi network failure. 
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • GrahamGGrahamG Frets: 87
    I have a cheap Asus laptop hardwired which is just there for a backup. I mainly use an iPad mini to control everything. I find the iOS app better for me.
    Roland said:
    GrahamG said:
    ... So what are people where using at a gig for controlling the XR ?
    Two iPads, mine and the bass player’s. We have a Mac hardwired into the XR for two reasons. First we record all our gigs from the desk to the Mac for later mix down to stereo. Secondly, it’s there if we were to get a complete WiFi network failure. 

    So can you guys view the full mix window of the software on your I-pad(ie all 16 Ch inc. the Main Section) & can you mute the FX channels via a single "group" button.?

    Just in case i'm doing something wrong with the I-pad app.
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  • mike257mike257 Frets: 374
    You can use mute groups from Mixing Station. Along the top menu bar, there's an icon that looks like a phone keypad - a load of squares. That pops the mute group buttons up. 

    Alternatively, you could put the FX sends in to a DCA and mute from there. 

    Definitely can be done on both the tablet and phone interfaces on Mixing Station.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    All 16 channels and 4 FX channels are visible, but I have to swipe left/right to get them on screen. Like a real mixer it’s good practice to use the early channels for things you need to change in a hurry: vocal channels, followed by anything else with a microphone.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    Can you not set up a custom layer so the things you need constantly like vocals, effects mute, guitars are are available without swiping ? 

    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • GrahamGGrahamG Frets: 87
    mike257 said:
    You can use mute groups from Mixing Station. Along the top menu bar, there's an icon that looks like a phone keypad - a load of squares. That pops the mute group buttons up. 

    Alternatively, you could put the FX sends in to a DCA and mute from there. 

    Definitely can be done on both the tablet and phone interfaces on Mixing Station.
    Thanks,i had tried the Group Mute from the section you indicated,but it doesn't seem like there is a button for the Mutes on the screen?.
    Also can you tell me if there is only 1 version of Mixing Station for the ipad,i keep seeing reference to a "pro" version or is that only for Andriod.
    You can probably tell i'm a bit slow with all this stuff,old age =)
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Any hints for mixing without being able to hear properly? Let me explain..we use our Xair at rehearsals without a PA, jsut to drive our in ears, even with decent IEMs there a fair bit of bleed from the amps / drums.

    So what ive taken to doing is recording practice then each week applying small tweaks but it seems like such a slow way to get there.

    Should note that the goal here is prob a decent recording rather than a mix that would FoH suitable. 
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    The only real way to do it is to have a sound guy in front as mix will change venue to venue and as the room fills up, however..........

    Back in the real world where gigs pay enough to cover the drinks, the fuel and a burger on the way home we have to make do.  My band have had a couple of months interuption due to the bass player leaving (bloody day jobs).  The plan is that in a few weeks time we'll hire a proper rehearsal room for the day (i.e. a big one with a proper stage etc) and spend the day getting a decent balance.  I'll play from out front and I'll also record the stuff as we go.  The great thing about the XR18 is that you can play the recorded tracks back through the same channel and get a pretty good idea of the mix whilst not playing (I always find the perception of the mix changes if I playing at the same time).  If I can I'll bring another musician in, who isn't playing, to assist.


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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    We put everything through the PA. When we first got the desk we hired a hall for the day, recorded a couple of songs, then went out front and listened back. This allowed us to balance and EQ everything except the drums. When we set up for a gig we do a line check, then play one song where one or more of us listens out front. Adjusting levels is usually limited to asking the bass player to turn down because he’s sneaked in a backline in addition to the PA.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    Musicwolf said:
      The great thing about the XR18 is that you can play the recorded tracks back through the same channel and get a pretty good idea of the mix whilst not playing (I always find the perception of the mix changes if I playing at the same time).  If I can I'll bring another musician in, who isn't playing, to assist.


    Whilst playback is a very useful facility it doesn't give a true FOH feel if there is a lot of volume coming off the stage via backline, so bear that in mind if the drummist is loud and the guitar uses a line 6 HX or practice amp.

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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    ESBlonde said:
    Musicwolf said:
      The great thing about the XR18 is that you can play the recorded tracks back through the same channel and get a pretty good idea of the mix whilst not playing (I always find the perception of the mix changes if I playing at the same time).  If I can I'll bring another musician in, who isn't playing, to assist.


    Whilst playback is a very useful facility it doesn't give a true FOH feel if there is a lot of volume coming off the stage via backline, so bear that in mind if the drummist is loud and the guitar uses a line 6 HX or practice amp.

    That's absolutely correct.  We have the vocals and both guitars through the PA only but the bass amp and drums are only really mic'd for IEM purposes (or recording the gig).  It's just another tool to help you on your way.



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