I'm hopeless when anyone is watching me..

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Try regularly recording and videoing your playing.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited March 2020
    When you play in front of people you’re probably fretting (ho ho) about how you’re playing. That’s making you make mistakes. 

    So what you gotta do is, when you practise at home on your own, concentrate on fretting about how you’re playing. Rehearse that. Concentrate about it and develop technique that mitigates the issues. That seems to be a worthwhile focus area. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • This is just killing me.. and I cannot understand why.

    I've been playing for about 30 years and I consider myself a pretty capable guitarist and musician. As soon as anyone other than my immediate family are watching or listening I literally cannot play. I'm not overstating this. It's like my brain just turns off and I lose total control of my fingers.. even the simplest thing becomes literally impossible to play..

    Similar to you, playing 20 years at home, competent player and can play in front of my wife and kids without a care. But if anyone else is there, the nerves set in, brain turns to mush, can't remember any of the songs I know, and my fingers just don't work properly. A few years back my nephew was learning guitar,  he sat next to me while I stumbled badly through a song I was trying to show him (Under the bridge IIRC), I was probably sweating. A few more relatives came into the room and that was it, I shutdown and I couldn't play. It's ridiculous isn't it?

    It's almost as if, note by note I am beating myself up about not playing that note or change as well as I normally would do, which then makes subsequent playing worse, the snowball effect.

    Seems to be piled on pressure, when my relatives come around I'm thinking 'will they ask me to play something' while remembering how bad I looked last time.

    Like you, when I was about 20 I played with others a couple of times and I was ok then, so what changes?

    I don't like being in the spotlight I guess, terrible at public speaking and get dry mouthed in job interviews (although I think if I was doing interviews all the time I would get used to it) . If someone else was singing and the attention was on them I might not be so bad.

    You say you have played in bands though and it didn't get any easier though. Maybe it would help if you could play with other people who have the same problem, everyone plays bad, laughs about it, and it's something to slowly build on?

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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 488
    I get something similar when having to play something at a guitar shop or with a tech: nothing comes into my head. 

    Actually, I don’t know how much this is down to performance anxiety, instead a result of how our brains are wired. I began a thread last year about the challenge of speaking (especially in a foreign language) when playing. I finally got in contact with a brain specialist last week about this issue and of course he wants to give my brain a scan to see what happens as I play. 

    Im busy with translations and the Coronavirus here in Italy so I have yet had time to process his reply. 
    I would expect your phenomenon is linked to the different parts of our brain in use and the inability to swap from one to the other quickly or in your case using another part of your brain instead of the musical part. 

    I will I’ll keep an eye on your thread and share this phenomenon too. 
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4943
    The OP should mention this problem to his music teacher.  A way round this difficulty must be found.  It matters not how it was in the past, how it is now is the issue.  For the record, does the OP have this difficulty when playing with someone else?  I understand from the first post that it is if he plays solo.  He is not alone in having this difficulty, kudos to the OP for mentioning it and bringing it into the open.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • I haven't read the previous responses but imo the only way to get over performance anxiety is to put yourself into the situations you fear as much as humanly possible until every mistake and every embarrassing and humiliating moment has been exposed and exorcised and you find that you're still there, still a good player and have nothing left to fear. 

    It'll get better. 
    'Vot eva happened to the Transylvanian Tvist?'
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    edited March 2020
    lukedlb said:
    I get something similar when having to play something at a guitar shop or with a tech: nothing comes into my head. 

    Actually, I don’t know how much this is down to performance anxiety, instead a result of how our brains are wired. I began a thread last year about the challenge of speaking (especially in a foreign language) when playing. I finally got in contact with a brain specialist last week about this issue and of course he wants to give my brain a scan to see what happens as I play. 

    Im busy with translations and the Coronavirus here in Italy so I have yet had time to process his reply. 
    I would expect your phenomenon is linked to the different parts of our brain in use and the inability to swap from one to the other quickly or in your case using another part of your brain instead of the musical part. 

    I will I’ll keep an eye on your thread and share this phenomenon too. 
    Thanks mate.

    Now this is an interesting one because about 18 months ago I started on a mission to improve my ability to think and play. I had spent a lifetime playing by ear, visualising patterns but never actually thinking as I was playing which was something I considered limiting This was certainly an area for me where I considered that I simply didn't have the 'brain wiring' to be able to do it.

    I was awoken to this when I had a lesson from a fantastic teacher and what I saw blew me away. The guy could literally play any scale from knowledge of the notes of the scale in real time. He was doing stuff like playing ascending scales horizontally descending down the neck and incorporating open strings into scales; discussing it with him it became apparent that he was pretty much always aware of what he was doing even when he was doing it at a subconscious level (like driving a car). I mean aware at a note/function level over the underlying harmony. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but I now understand that you can do things subconsciously but still be completely aware at the subconscious level.

    When I started I was absolutely hopeless. I mean f'king hopeless; I literally couldn't shout out the names of notes through a cycle of 4ths when trying to play them at the same time. A pattern so ingrained in my mind that I found it unfathomable that I couldn't 'know' it as I played. I simply couldn't seem to hold something in my mind whilst at the same time undertaking the physical action of playing. I presume that's what you're alluding to above?

    I worked through a program that focused on initially knowing the notes of the fretboard. Now I really mean knowing the notes; shouting them out as I played. I worked on this to the point where I know them cold, without thinking about them. If you asked me to name the note on a fretboard I would be able to convey it as easily as you asking me to pick a red card when holding up a red and blue. It took a massive amount of effort to do this but what's interesting about this to me is that I now know them sort of subconsciously.. Doing this forced me to have to think and, over time, it just got easier and easier and I've now got to the point where thinking and playing just feels normal. Even when I'm playing on auto-pilot and letting it flow I still have an awareness.

    I say this because it's defo an area for me that I thought I simply wasn't equipped mentally to do and yet I've proved that's not the case (in my case).

    Good luck the CV-19 work and be careful out there.

    Si
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  • BeardyAndyBeardyAndy Frets: 716
    I know exactly where you're coming from. I've played for a similar amount of time (30 years this year) and did the school band thing but them was a 'bedroom noodler' for the last couple of decades, so last year decided to do something about it and replied to a Join my band ad and next thing I know i'm playing lead. I'd always play quieter than the rhythm guitarist, never use boost for the solo's and invariably muff them up when I did. It was only when I was having a beer or 2 with our drummer when he said he "always knew when i way playing a solo because I had my back to the band was staring at my pedal board!"

    Last week I embraced my inner rock god and other than a few foul ups early on I don't think i muffed a single solo, probably because i could actually hear what I was playing! =)

    Sing like no one is listening.
    Love like you’ve never been hurt.
    Dance like nobody’s watching,
    and live like it’s heaven on earth.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    I have no idea about if this would work, but how about trying a hypnotherapist?
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    Rocker said:
    The OP should mention this problem to his music teacher.  A way round this difficulty must be found.  It matters not how it was in the past, how it is now is the issue.  For the record, does the OP have this difficulty when playing with someone else?  I understand from the first post that it is if he plays solo.  He is not alone in having this difficulty, kudos to the OP for mentioning it and bringing it into the open.
    Thanks for the post. I'm defo going to get to the bottom of the issue and work to try and resolve it.

    I have the same difficulty in any situation tbh. Doesn't matter if it's playing in front of a mate, someone who's come to buy a guitar off me or a room full of people. Don't get me wrong I'm man enough to put myself in any situation as my view has always been you've simply got to push into the unknown to grow. Done it my whole life in everything and am still here to tell the tale :)

    As an example I took the bull by the horns and hooked up with a really nice singer a couple of years ago and did a few acoustic gigs. Just me on guitar and her singing. A nightmare situation for me as there's simply nowhere to hide. I survived but only because the stuff I played was so simple (to me) that I could pull it off. It's not that I don't enjoy performing, I do. It's just that my mental/physical state is so altered that doing what I'd like (and am able) to do seems impossible when doing it in front of anybody. Shame it ended but she couldn't continue due to life challenges..

    Si
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    I have no idea about if this would work, but how about trying a hypnotherapist?
    I'm currently looking at this and seeking out a psychologist..
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  • guitartangoguitartango Frets: 1012
    mrkb said:
    You should come to the Hertford jam Si, no one looks at anyone else there, were all too busy staring at our fretboards! The songs only end when I get bored playing the drums and stop playing as there’s no eye contact. And mikes amp is so loud you can’t hear anyone else’s playing either ;)

    @grappagreen as Mark said, come down to the next Hertford jam, doesnt matter if you play the wrong notes or chords (i normally do), its just having some fun, and yes even my crappy blues Jnr has to be turned down :)


    “Ken sent me.”
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    munckee said:
    Did you play at water rats? I seem to remember no one being sh1tter than me?


    I did and again I f'cked up pretty much everything I had learned.. 

    I also sat downstairs in the room with a few of the chaps and played at about 15% of my actual capability..
    This I think is the way forward. I always play better on my own. However I have learned to increase the percentage over time. One thing I have found is that I get less nervous/tied up when I've done something over time. For example when I went to my first Fretboard Jam it was as someone who was trying to play lead guitar having swapped from bass. I was up first and managed to not completely cock up a song I had played a million times in practice. I then swapped to bass and was quite happily playing songs I had not played but looked at the chord chart for the night before. I have played enough bass over the years that it's not a challenge. Same with open chords on an acoustic, play something live i've never even heard before, no problem, transpose easy. 

    Play three notes on an electric, I can hear my heart...
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  • Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 24
    edited March 2020
    3 things: Ease of playing, ease of playing and ease of playing!

    We all lose a percentage of our skills to pressure so can only perform well what's easy for us in practice.

    The saying is, "practise until you can't do it wrong!"
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    3 things: Ease of playing, ease of playing and ease of playing!

    We all lose a percentage of our skills to pressure so can only perform well what's easy for us in practice.

    The saying is, "practise until you can't do it wrong!"
    I don't disagree we all lose a percentage of our skills but mine is about 70% reduction which doesn't seem normal based on most of the other human beings I've had the pleasure of making a twat of myself in front of :)
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  • mine is about 70% reduction which doesn't seem normal 
    If you double your ease of playing from where you are now that should allow the required headroom in your comfort zone. Can elaborate further if of use.
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    mine is about 70% reduction which doesn't seem normal 
    If you double your ease of playing from where you are now that should allow the required headroom in your comfort zone. Can elaborate further if of use.
    I'm all ears as I simply have to find a solution..
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  • Ok, what's a good example of something in this category? Something you consider easy in the bedroom but a mess in public? ;)
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    edited March 2020
    I'm going to assume you mean bedroom as in 'somewhere I play my guitar where I'm comfortable' - if not I think we're done here

    If you mean a piece of music let's take 'Message In A Bottle' for example. Effortless when I'm on my own; 100% guaranteed to fuck up if I tried to play it to you..

    Si
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  • let's take 'Message In A Bottle' for example. Effortless when I'm on my own; 100% guaranteed to fuck up if I tried to play it to you..
    A good example to work with ... a few decent stretches and some intricate picking.  Are you happy to post videos of your playing?
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