Home Brewing (Complete Noob)

AndyD

This for me too - 100%

RedRabbit said:

I went straight from kits to all grain - the difference is pretty much night and day.  The homebrew "twang" is gone and I have a lot more flexibility over what I can brew.

RedRabbit

victorludorum said:

RedRabbit said:

victorludorum said:

I've done a couple of Woodforde kits, and although it was drinkable, it still had that 'homebrew' taste which is very hard to describe. I'm reading about making beer with powdered extract now, and then maybe I'll go full grain. Is there are big difference in taste going from the canned extract to powder?

I've never used the dried extract so can't say how much of an improvement you'll get.  There does seem to be a lot of speculation that the homebrew taste comes from the liquid malt, especially in kits where it might not be that fresh.

I went straight from kits to all grain - the difference is pretty much night and day.  The homebrew "twang" is gone and I have a lot more flexibility over what I can brew.

What size batches would you be wanting to make?  You won't need a lot more equipment to do all grain with a boil in the bag method than you'll need for dried malt.  As long as you've got a pot big enough to hold the mash then all you'd need extra is the bag.

Well I did the same kit twice and it tasted identical both times, so i'm guessing it's just the way it is. I'm keen on going to all grain as I don't really need to do gallons of it. I'll have a look at the equipment needed, but I think I'm just going to go for it as it seems to be pretty universal that it tastes much better that way.

While my main brews are 23l, I do smaller 5l all grain batches to test recipes.  Kit consists of 10l stock pot, grain bag, thermometer, siphon and a small fermenting bucket (actually a repurposed protein powder container).  Most of the other stuff you might want you'll either have from the kit or can be bought later on.  Grain can be brought pre-crushed and in small quantities.  A pack of dried yeast will do 3 or 4 5l batches and hops freeze really well.  Recipes are easily scaled or there are online calculators that'll do it for you.

If you just want to do a brew once in a blue moon or you don't have the time for a full brew then malt extract might be the answer but if it's going to be a fairly regular thing I'd seriously suggest going all grain.  The improvement in quality will be worth it.

hywelg

Dried malt extract is hugely superior to liquid. I had excellent results with DME such that all grain was only a minor improvement. 

You need a filter on your boiler outlet. 

Priming sugar is needed with a barrel unless you have a regulator on your gas cylinder and can leave it pressurised. You'll not carbonate it with a quick squirt of gas now and again. If you keep it warm the yeast will go to work on the priming sugar in a matter of days. 

 RedRabbit said:

Just cracked open a bottle of my IPA with corriander seed and orange peel.  Might have been a mistake to pair it with citra hops.  There's a distinct citrus taste but I'm not sure how much is hops and how much is the corriander and orange.

It's only been conditioning for a week but it's already very drinkable.  No hint of that homebrew taste mentioned above.  Going to try and leave the rest for at least another week as it's still a little hazy.

Amarillo is good with orange. So is Mandarina Bavaria but it's a lot less potent. Don't drink with your eyes, clarity isn't something you should really be aiming for and you'll really only get it by fining. And you'll probably need two types of fining depending on whether it's yeast or hop fines in suspension. 

RedRabbit

hywelg said:

You need a filter on your boiler outlet. 

I'm assuming this is in response to my post about the leaf hops?  Given that I'm going to have to take the tap out to clean it I was thinking of getting one of the bazooka filters to fit on it.  Have you got any experience of these?

RedRabbit

hywelg said:

 RedRabbit said:

Just cracked open a bottle of my IPA with corriander seed and orange peel.  Might have been a mistake to pair it with citra hops.  There's a distinct citrus taste but I'm not sure how much is hops and how much is the corriander and orange.

It's only been conditioning for a week but it's already very drinkable.  No hint of that homebrew taste mentioned above.  Going to try and leave the rest for at least another week as it's still a little hazy.

Amarillo is good with orange. So is Mandarina Bavaria but it's a lot less potent. Don't drink with your eyes, clarity isn't something you should really be aiming for and you'll really only get it by fining. And you'll probably need two types of fining depending on whether it's yeast or hop fines in suspension. 

Still trying to get my head around the huge number of hops that are available.  Mainly been using a small number of US hops so far hence using the citra as I already had it in.

The haze doesn't really bother me that much and if it's still hazy in a week so be it.  It'll get drunk just the same. 

hywelg

RedRabbit said:

hywelg said:

You need a filter on your boiler outlet. 

I'm assuming this is in response to my post about the leaf hops?  Given that I'm going to have to take the tap out to clean it I was thinking of getting one of the bazooka filters to fit on it.  Have you got any experience of these?

Yes i started with a bazooka. Works fine with leaf but not so good with just pellet. If you must use pellet then use some leaf as well. When you get to using huge quantities of hops you'll get fed up with the pfaff of getting the wort out of the trub. I went for a pump and 500 micron filter like the Hop Stopper that I made myself. 

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/hop-stopper

Brewbuilder do a decent one as well 

https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/dx-hop-filter.html

Both need a pump. Process is you chill the beer down to temp. Then whirlpool with a paddle on a drill. Let it settle and start recirculating through the filter until it runs clear. Then run off the wort. For the last 5 litres or so slow the pump right down to a dribble and you'll then get all the wort out without breaking the Syphon/priming of the pump.

RedRabbit

Well, it's in the fermenting bucket.  Not an experience I want to repeat.  First 15l siphoned across without issue but as I got closer to the bottom of the kettle the hops kept clogging the siphon.  Ended up pouring the rest of the wort into a second bucket and straining it into the fermenter.

Ended up with 23l in the bucket though and the wort looks and tastes pretty good.  Not sure how I ended up with my target volume given the problems (and resultant spillage) I've had with this brew.

RedRabbit

Looks like I may have my first ever failed fermentation.  It's had 36 hours at 18°c and there no sign of activity what so ever.  Going to leave it a little longer and take a gravity reading to be sure but I think I'm going to be pitching a second lot of yeast.

Disappointing as it's my first time using liquid yeast and I was hoping to be able to harvest it and get my own culture going.

In other yeast news, I've got a few strains of kveik on the way.  Really interested to see what these can do.

duotone

With the Witbier ingredients pack I received last week I got a liquid yeast too. For my first time, luckily I read the storage information on the packaging & put it in the fridge.

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/belgian-ale/whiteout/

RedRabbit

duotone said:

With the Witbier ingredients pack I received last week I got a liquid yeast too. For my first time, luckily I read the storage information on the packaging & put it in the fridge.

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/belgian-ale/whiteout/

I think I've just been unlucky.  Mine was stored in the fridge but taken out the morning before pitching to bring it up to temperature.

I've not quite given up hope of it getting going but if it does fail there's no reason the extra yeast shouldn't work.

hywelg

RedRabbit said:

Looks like I may have my first ever failed fermentation.  It's had 36 hours at 18°c and there no sign of activity what so ever.  Going to leave it a little longer and take a gravity reading to be sure but I think I'm going to be pitching a second lot of yeast.

Disappointing as it's my first time using liquid yeast and I was hoping to be able to harvest it and get my own culture going.

In other yeast news, I've got a few strains of kveik on the way.  Really interested to see what these can do.

Did you aerate the wort well? 

For Kveik you need to be able to keep your wort warm. In the region of 30°C.  Without a fermentation fridge that will be difficult. 

I'd put an order in at Crossmyloof PDQ with first class post for some dried yeast.  Email them and explain the urgency. 

I've had liquid yeast fail on me and in a kit you can bet it's not been stored in a fridge. 

Edit: just reread your first post and you're not doing a kit. However the liquid yeast I had fail know me came from a reputable supplier and was kept in the fridge. They are as reliable as dried.

RedRabbit

hywelg said:

RedRabbit said:

Looks like I may have my first ever failed fermentation.  It's had 36 hours at 18°c and there no sign of activity what so ever.  Going to leave it a little longer and take a gravity reading to be sure but I think I'm going to be pitching a second lot of yeast.

Disappointing as it's my first time using liquid yeast and I was hoping to be able to harvest it and get my own culture going.

In other yeast news, I've got a few strains of kveik on the way.  Really interested to see what these can do.

Did you aerate the wort well? 

For Kveik you need to be able to keep your wort warm. In the region of 30°C.  Without a fermentation fridge that will be difficult. 

I'd put an order in at Crossmyloof PDQ with first class post for some dried yeast.  Email them and explain the urgency. 

I've had liquid yeast fail on me and in a kit you can bet it's not been stored in a fridge. 

Edit: just reread your first post and you're not doing a kit. However the liquid yeast I had fail know me came from a reputable supplier and was kept in the fridge. They are as reliable as dried.

Wort was well aerated (I think).  Transferred to the fermenting bucket from height and then shook the bucket well for 30 seconds before pitching.  There was a decent amount of foam on top of the wort when I pitched the yeast.

Already got some yeast from Crossmyloof from a bulk order I did a while ago and it's what I've been using in most of my brews.  I only used the liquid yeast this time as it's what the recipe specified and I was interested in using liquid yeast (mainly to try harvesting and reusing it).

Yeast used was wyeast london ale (1028 I think but I'd have to check to be sure).  Supplied by The Malt Miller who have been excellent with everything else and I'm reasonably sure they keep their yeast refrigerated.  I did notice that they are starting to ship liquid yeast with ice packs though.  I do wonder if the recent hot weather and the temperature in the delivery van could have damaged the yeast.  Also worth noting that it was a pack from April '20 so may have benefited from a starter (brewers friend suggests over 50% efficiency lost in that time) but even so I would have expected some activity by now.

I'm going to give it until this evening.  If there's so no sign of life I'll take a gravity reading and aerate the wort a bit more and give it another 24 hours.  After that the dried yeast is going in.

For the kveik - I've got a fermentation fridge with a 40w heater in it.  I've not had it at those sort of temperatures before but from what I read it should be able to cope.  As with the liquid yeast the plan is to harvest and cultivate the kveik so I've always go some on hand.  I've ordered three strains - one for citrus flavours, one with tropical fruit and a clean to attempt a kveik lager.  If the results are decent I think it'll become my go to yeast.

hywelg

Cultivated yeast will only keep about a month or so. And you shouldn't use it beyond about 5 iterations 

I did that with a Kveik, doing 4 more brews with it to get the moneys worth (it was £8). I top cropped the first brew and spooned some out of the cake for brews two and three (a double batch) Then did the same again for four and five.

RedRabbit

I thought it was viable for more than a month - doubt it'll be an issue though.  I'd already read about the yeast mutating over iterations.  I'm sure I'd seen somewhere where it's less of an issue with kveik but that might have been the original farmhouse version rather than the commercial strains.  Must admit that I'm curious as to what the issues are with taking it past this point.  I'm assuming it's potential off flavours or a loss of efficiency?

Wanting to cultivate the yeast isn't really down to penny pinching (though that aspect is appealing), it's more just exploring what's possible and it strikes me as a fairly sensible thing to be doing.

hywelg

RedRabbit said:

I thought it was viable for more than a month - doubt it'll be an issue though.  I'd already read about the yeast mutating over iterations.  I'm sure I'd seen somewhere where it's less of an issue with kveik but that might have been the original farmhouse version rather than the commercial strains.  Must admit that I'm curious as to what the issues are with taking it past this point.  I'm assuming it's potential off flavours or a loss of efficiency?

Wanting to cultivate the yeast isn't really down to penny pinching (though that aspect is appealing), it's more just exploring what's possible and it strikes me as a fairly sensible thing to be doing.

It is a sensible thing to do. That's why most breweries will have a "house" yeast that they use for most beers only specialty beers getting a different yeast. 

The problem with yeast harvesting is you need to be brewing on a regular schedule. And therefore probably drinking more than is healthy. 

MagicPigDetective

My kit has finally arrived. Do you mind if I ask a few questions? It comes with generic instrcutions, the malt tins also have their own instructions, so trying to combine the two. 

Stick on thermometer - just stick it on the outside of the bucket?
'Good tap water, suggests pre-boiled or filtered. Do I need to pre-boil 20 litres of water!?
The generic instructions go on about making a starter of the yeast sachet, with water and sugar for a few hours. The other instructions say just to add the yeast powder straight in?

hywelg

Does the kit need to be boiled? If it has separate hops then they usually need boiling for 60mins. 

Dried yeast can usually just be sprinkled on the foam atop the wort. You really need to aerate the wort before you add the yeast. Either by splashing a lot as you drain into the fermenter or putting a paddle in a drill and whizzing it up. 

Tap water needs treating with half a Camden tablet to remove any chlorine the water company put in there. If your instructions don't require the wort to be boiled then you need to boil the water to sterilise it properly. 

RedRabbit

RedRabbit said:

I'm going to give it until this evening.  If there's so no sign of life I'll take a gravity reading and aerate the wort a bit more and give it another 24 hours.  After that the dried yeast is going in.

Gravity reading showed absolutely no activity.  Gave it a good stir and, to my surprise, there are signs of activity this morning.  There's a small amount of krausen forming.  I've still got the dried yeast on standby but I don't think I'll need it now.

Not really sure what the problem was.  I still suspect a bad pack of yeast but with enough viable cells left for it to eventually get going and that the extra oxygen I introduced last night was just what it needed.

RedRabbit

MagicPigDetective said:

My kit has finally arrived. Do you mind if I ask a few questions? It comes with generic instrcutions, the malt tins also have their own instructions, so trying to combine the two. 

Stick on thermometer - just stick it on the outside of the bucket?
'Good tap water, suggests pre-boiled or filtered. Do I need to pre-boil 20 litres of water!?
The generic instructions go on about making a starter of the yeast sachet, with water and sugar for a few hours. The other instructions say just to add the yeast powder straight in?

Thermometer - yeah, stick it to the side of the bucket.  I've never been sure how accurate these strip thermometers are but it'll give you an idea of the temperature during fermentation.

I'll bow to @hywelg on the use of boiled water.  On the kit's I did I just boiled the water that was used to dissolve the liquid malt and the cold water to top up was straight out of the tap.  The beer was fine but with sterilisation it's better to be safe than sorry.  Did the kit come with anything to sterilise the bucket etc with?  If not I'd suggest getting a small bottle of starsan or chemsan (not sure starsan is available at the moment) and give anything that'll come in contact with the wort a good soak before you begin.

Probably not an issue given how many kits have been sold recently but I'd just check the best before date on the yeast.  If it's well within date then I'd say it's completely up to you as to whether you make a starter or not.  If it's getting close to or is past the best before then I'd make a starter to make sure it's still viable.  To be honest making a starter isn't something I've tended to do when brewing but, oddly, I always make a small starter for making bread to make sure the yeast is still alive.

hywelg

Starsan is back available now. Aparently Chemsan isn't ad good. pH doesnt get as low.