Any (70s) ES-335 experts in the house?

OrsomeWells

Got the opportunity to purchase a friends 70s ES-335 which sounds and plays nicely, but there's a few issues that I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than me can help with.

It looks like the neck may have been removed at some point in the past, maybe for a neck reset, but the neck (particularly the heel) is quite a different colour tone to the body which is a bit baffling although the neck colour does gradually seem to get nearer the body colour as you get nearer the headstock.

The binding on the neck looks in a similar condition (and state of yellowing) as the binding on the body so there's no doubt it's old (the volute and serial stamp seems to suggest early 70s), but I guess I'm curious as to whether it is the original neck or whether it had a different neck put on, albeit some time ago.

Anyhow pictures below which hopefully show the main points of interest - unfortunately there are no visible markings on the pots so don't have any shots of that  

Stratavarious

I have a ‘72 345.. similar colour, yellowed binding except where it wears on the neck, same sticker.

The 3 piece neck is same with a contrast although not as marked as that.

ICBM

It all looks right to me. The neck wood is a different colour because it's mahogany whereas the body is birch. Differential shrinkage and finish cracking around the neck joint is normal, as is the heel being darker than the rest of the neck.

Non-original strap buttons and case, but otherwise it all looks stock. The pickup covers may have been off and re-fitted - the pole screws appear to be set unusually deep, which is often a sign they have been.

OrsomeWells

Thanks both, pleased to hear it all looks legit, think I might go ahead with the purchase  

shugz

Looks cock on to me. 

A lot of old 335s actually look like the neck has been pulled at some stage but its actually just another lovely quirk of Kalamazoo. Looks about 71 but serial numbers all over the place. The volute shape looks about right for then.

Frets look a little low but classic Norlin. Pickups should be chrome covered t-top patent sticker ones unless you've got lucky and someone has fitted some older ones (doubtful sorry). Guitar should possibly sound quite lively and bright with those in. Not everyone likes them but they are on a heck of a lot of classic recordings.

Enjoy the purchase if you get it

Cheers 
Hugh

OrsomeWells

Thanks Hugh It needs a refret as there are some quite deep divots in the frets, but other than that it's a great guitar  

shugz

Superb, some of those 70s ones are ace. A 1971 335 was my first vintage guitar (1996) - whilst not had JoBo levels of gear excess I have had a few of those in my time. Some great, some average some rubbish - ah Gibson in the 70s then really!

Hope the new/old 335 works out - I'd not hesitate to refret it if it needs it. They are worth it, why run an E-type on worn crossplies?

Cheers 
Hugh

randella

I've just had a look at the '72 335 I have, and the same deal - marked contrast between the colour of the neck heel and the colour of the body.  Maybe not quite as pronounced as yours, but that might just be the light.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

It all looks right to me. The neck wood is a different colour because it's mahogany whereas the body is birch. Differential shrinkage and finish cracking around the neck joint is normal, as is the heel being darker than the rest of the neck.

Agree with the above comments

Also a few months ago I purchased, for myself, a mid 60's Epi Riviera, similar to that played by R Ford - Nice guitar but from birth the neck angle was wrong - I mentioned it to a guitar tech and he removed the neck, re-set it and sorted it out - To many such a job is seen as some serious big deal like having a leg taken off and replaced - To a good tech it is a day to day activity - The guitar instantly played better 

Many pre-war Martin acoustic guitars have had such work carried out

So if done well then don't worry about it

You might not want to see such work carried out, but just accept the results of a competent job

It has zero impact on the guitars value, but to many the work after makes the guitar so much more desirable

OrsomeWells

Well 10 months after I decided to purchase it, I'm going to have to reluctantly shift it due to ongoing covid/work related uncertainties

I had it re-fretted as the frets were totally shagged so they're as new. Everything else is stock including pots/pickups (T Top, stamped)

It has the aftermarket case in these photos which is well used, plus the original case which has some damage.

Before I list it, anyone have any idea of what a fair price to ask for a model in this condition?

skikdi53

How much you bought it and what cost thé refret, is where you can start.

Ossyrocks

Did you ever get to accurately date it? It’s not easy in most cases, but pot codes can be accessed sometimes. I have a 69 and a 70. I’m feeling another coming on......

OrsomeWells

@Ossyrocks ;
At the moment my best estimate is 1974, previous owner thinks 1972.
I think I'll need to fish a pot out to be any more accurate, I'll see if I can do that today.

Ossyrocks

OrsomeWells said:

@Ossyrocks ;
At the moment my best estimate is 1974, previous owner thinks 1972.
I think I'll need to fish a pot out to be any more accurate, I'll see if I can do that today.

Don’t try to fish a pot out, not unless you have a few hours to spare. Get your hands on a dental mirror and see what you can see. On my 69 I can read the date code on one of the pots, on the 70 I can’t, so you have to fall back to the features for dating.

OrsomeWells

I've got the fishtank tubes that I use when working on hollowbodies so worst case I can use that method, but I'll see if I can dig out my dentist's mirror  

OrsomeWells

OK the pots are absolutely lagged in solder, I can only see the first couple of digits which denote CTS, so I think I'll have to resort to the features...

A couple of different sites suggest that the serial (510576) indicates 1974-1975. The pickups are stamped rather than labelled, and that started in 74 I believe. The label and volute narrow it down less specifically I believe, they seem to suggest early to mid 70s.

When I tried to date it back in march I came to the conclusion it was a 74 but can't recall the smoking gun, but it certainly looks like it could be 74-75.

Koa

There are varying views on the accuracy of the Ian C Bishop Gibson Guitar book, published pre internet (1977) it suggests that in 1976 serial numbers began 313001 upwards. So yes difficult to date but most likely a very nice mid to late 70s 335.