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  • vizviz Frets: 6500
    Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I. 
    Misogyny ... enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it. - Guitartango
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    viz said:
    Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I. 
    Ah ok cool I’ll give that a go . Thanks Viz
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 27897
    viz said:
    Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I. 
    My favourite is III - I.

    Gooooldfinger.
    http://uptheoctave.com
    Audio Production Reviews and Technique.
    Latest article for Production Expert: Mixing with guitar pedals. https://bit.ly/3hCtIHF
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  • vizviz Frets: 6500
    edited April 6
    octatonic said:
    viz said:
    Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I. 
    My favourite is III - I.

    Gooooldfinger.
    Yep that’s gorgeous, but not based on a diatonic mode (i know you know this). I similarly love i - biii (well, i-vi) - there’s a song by Emma Bunton that uses this rather effectively, forgotten what it’s called.
    Misogyny ... enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it. - Guitartango
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 27897
    viz said:
    octatonic said:
    viz said:
    Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I. 
    My favourite is III - I.

    Gooooldfinger.
    Yep that’s gorgeous, but not based on a diatonic mode (i know you know this). I similarly love i - biii
    Very nice too.
    http://uptheoctave.com
    Audio Production Reviews and Technique.
    Latest article for Production Expert: Mixing with guitar pedals. https://bit.ly/3hCtIHF
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    Having slept on it I was just wondering if anyone knows of any good links for some tasty modal licks though. Yeah I could sit around hours on end trying come up with them and yes I have plenty of time at the moment but I'd still find it boring. I'd rather find a lick and perfect it in the time tbh
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • vizviz Frets: 6500
    edited April 7
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Misogyny ... enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it. - Guitartango
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    edited April 7
    viz said:
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 690
    edited April 7
    viz said:
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol 
    I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    viz said:
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol 
    I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.
    I couldn't imagine not having a visual fretboard reference to go by 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • Fifty9Fifty9 Frets: 346
    viz said:
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol 
    I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.
    Are you basically saying a 12 fret box? That instead of ‘zooming in’ on a box shape that spans 3 or 4 frets that you’ve effectively zoomed out and can visualise how the scale pattern repeats over a wider area?
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    edited April 8
    Fifty9 said:
    viz said:
    Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

    https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg
    Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol 
    I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.
    Are you basically saying a 12 fret box? That instead of ‘zooming in’ on a box shape that spans 3 or 4 frets that you’ve effectively zoomed out and can visualise how the scale pattern repeats over a wider area?
    Not exactly. Sometimes that’s worse. I mean a grouped area that can give up a cool luck that one can use? A fast one or slower one. But I’d like it be in relation to a box I already know for reference etc 

    Im not into him but the way Chris buck flies around the board sometimes, I can see some of his shapes basically blues boxes but some of it isn’t imo. 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • TforTeleTforTele Frets: 24
    I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.  

    Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode.  So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd.  So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    TforTele said:
    I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.  

    Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode.  So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd.  So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.
    ....and a major 2nd I believe for dorian :)
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 542
    TforTele said:
    I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.  

    Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode.  So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd.  So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.

    It sounds better to my ears, if the modal chords include the character notes of the scale.

    Chord Harmony is the key, the single note lines need good harmony to sound good, IMHO.

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  • TforTeleTforTele Frets: 24
    TforTele said:
    I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.  

    Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode.  So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd.  So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.
    ....and a major 2nd I believe for dorian :)
    Yes, but the thing is it’s a minor key and...

    It keep the 6 (Major 6th) which is it's main characteristic”
    https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/the-dorian-mode-sc-512

    Try So What and it’s clear - nice tune, too!  I think I have some tab somewhere.
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    edited April 13
    Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

    EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while :( 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • TforTeleTforTele Frets: 24
    Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

    EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while :( 
    As I learnt it (which was in this context, hence thinking it potentially helpful) all the notes played are notes of the C Major scale.  What makes it Dorian is that it all starts on the D.  So you get a particular set of intervals.  Try playing the notes D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F.  Then shift up a semitone (including the chords).  Sorry, I realise notation would be more useful!

    The 6th is major, which distinguishes it from the natural minor (Aeolian).

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What_(Miles_Davis_composition)

    You might play it with your D root on the fifth string (with D shape chords) or the sixth string (with A shape chords).

    Rick Beato seems to be the guy for modes stuff on Youtube.

    (I've been told) modes are just sub-scales of a scale - here of the Diatonic Major.
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  • vizviz Frets: 6500
    edited April 13
    Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?




    Nope it’s a major 6th. 

    Here’s a flow chart:

    https://i.imgur.com/kGMkVKi.jpg


    This version is in D (well, D Dorian); maybe you’re not identifying the home note correctly (D) which is then confusing all your intervals?

    https://youtu.be/ylXk1LBvIqU


    The stand-out (major) 6th can be heard in the upper of the two chords in the harmony. 
    Misogyny ... enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it. - Guitartango
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    TforTele said:
    Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

    EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while :( 
    As I learnt it (which was in this context, hence thinking it potentially helpful) all the notes played are notes of the C Major scale.  What makes it Dorian is that it all starts on the D.  So you get a particular set of intervals.  Try playing the notes D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F.  Then shift up a semitone (including the chords).  Sorry, I realise notation would be more useful!

    The 6th is major, which distinguishes it from the natural minor (Aeolian).

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What_(Miles_Davis_composition)

    You might play it with your D root on the fifth string (with D shape chords) or the sixth string (with A shape chords).

    Rick Beato seems to be the guy for modes stuff on Youtube.

    (I've been told) modes are just sub-scales of a scale - here of the Diatonic Major.
    Blimey now you’ve lost me :( 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    edited April 13
    viz said:
    Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?




    Nope it’s a major 6th. 

    Here’s a flow chart:

    https://i.imgur.com/kGMkVKi.jpg



    Yeah that’s what I thought. I thought I heard a minor 6 in that song. I must’ve been listening to a different key version 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • vizviz Frets: 6500

    Yeah that’s what I thought. I thought I heard a minor 6 in that song. I must’ve been listening to a different key version 
    Fair enough, well anyhoo it’s deffo a major 6th. If you were playing it on the guitar in the blues box at fret 10, the motif would be

    x x x 12 12 x
    x x x 10 10 x

    the 12th fret on the B string is that Dorian 6th. 
    Misogyny ... enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it. - Guitartango
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  • TforTeleTforTele Frets: 24
    hotpickups said:Blimey now you’ve lost me :( 
    Really sorry, I'm probably not explaining it well.  I suspect it is much easier to grasp with pen and paper / whiteboard.  If you do try playing the riff you'll get the characteristic sound/feel, with is what matters a the end of the day!

    "D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F.  Then shift up a semitone (including the chords)."

    Climb up from the root (D), then drop down for the C and up to finish on the D octave.  Dada, dada, dada, da da.  It's nice.  It's Miles!

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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    antonyiv said:
    I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

    There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well. 
    @antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • antonyivantonyiv Frets: 263
    antonyiv said:
    I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

    There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well. 
    @antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?
    IMHO it is a very good course and now is on sale. I don't think you can go wrong for 25 dollars. Having said that, sometimes theory such as CAGED positions and inversions could be boring and some people quit and start blaming teachers and courses instead of their lack of patience. 
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1411
    antonyiv said:
    antonyiv said:
    I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

    There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well. 
    @antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?
    IMHO it is a very good course and now is on sale. I don't think you can go wrong for 25 dollars. Having said that, sometimes theory such as CAGED positions and inversions could be boring and some people quit and start blaming teachers and courses instead of their lack of patience. 
    Lol not me I love a bit of pain and boredom sometimes. Getting used to it over the past 2 months .

    Thanks for getting back to me 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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