controlling a silver jubilee for clean and driven sounds

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darcymdarcym Frets: 1187
this seems a really obvious problem, but I honestly can't get a good result out of it. 
I've been using a Silver Jubilee for a higher gain rockier sound than normal - the playing I'm doing is basically a Slash style over drive sound (hence the Jubilee being a good choice). I've managed to get the Jubilee to have a great great great over driven sound really pleased with it and as the set was all driven sounds, zero issue.

I've now found I may want to introduce a clean marshall sound for a few sections of a few songs, the Jubilee is really a single channel out with a slight gain/volume boost on the "lead" channel, there is no separate gain control, so if I set the amp for a great clean sound, the drive sound has to be delivered by pedals into the clean amp, which is fine, but I really love the raw over driven sound of the marshall.

I have 3 options - but wanted to hear from people who use this type of amp a lot more than myself if I'd missed a trick or something obvious as this is not my normal type of amp or playing style.

a.) I have other marshall voiced amps, use two amps one for clean one for dirty, best option, biggest overhead though.
b.) use other marshall voiced amps with two distinct channels (I have some DSL's and a Jackson ampworks El Guapo) - the ElGuapo is really good for this, but the drive channel is a different era/voice rather than the Jubilee era
c.) use the Jubilee clean + pedals - this sounds fine, but it really isn't the same as the raw overdrive from the amp and I've really enjoyed 

Is it really these 3 options or have I missed a track (secret option 4 is just drop the desire for a clean sound which I'm also considering


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  • musteatbrainmusteatbrain Frets: 657
    edited March 26
    I always use the lead channel, a Les Paul with the neck pickup at very low volume and switch to that pickup at the same time as switching on an EQ in the loop. The EQ is mainly used to boost the output stage to compensate for the drop in level going through the pre-amp 

    I have pre-amp gain just under 7
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 6896
    edited March 27
    I had a Marshall Jubilee combo the first time around. It excelled at valve overdrive and even more valve overdrive. Winding back the gain pot in the hope of discovering a good clean sound was doubly futile as it also hobbled the Boost channel.

    Rolling down the guitar volume control(s) to clean up the overdrive saturation is the only option. Having a treble bypass network on the guitar volume pot might help.
    Be seeing you.
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  • darcymdarcym Frets: 1187
    I had a Marshall Jubilee combo the first time around. It excelled at valve overdrive and even more valve overdrive. Winding back the gain pot in the hope of discovering a good clean sound was doubly futile as it also nobbled the Boost channel.

    Rolling down the guitar volume control(s) to clean up the overdrive saturation is the only option. Having a treble bypass network on the guitar volume pot might help.
    this is exactly it, getting superb overdriven tones, and I can get a clean tone, but then that's came over for the driven tones, and a pedal works just fine, but the magic of the jubilee is that over driven tone.

    I'll just dump the clean parts it's too nice as a over drive beast to not use. I guess I could get a little marshall combo for that clean "dead" marshall sound and take it with me if I wanted the clean sound.

    I'm trying to fix a problem that shouldn't exist, don't play clean in to a jubilee it's not what they are there for (even though the clean sound is a nice dead thump).
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  • gjonesygjonesy Frets: 100
    there was a pedal that was designed to back off an overdriven amp, I think it was Paul Gilbert sig - underdrive or detox or something
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  • TwinfanTwinfan Frets: 1621
    Are you using Rhythm Clip?  The amp can do two things if you use the channel switching:

    RC off - fairly clean-ish rhythm and gainy lead
    RC on - crunchy rhythm and gainy lead

    Obviously you can't do all three settings so you'd need to choose one and stick to it.  I use RC on and the channel switch for a lead boost, which has its own volume control.  Live it works brilliantly and that's what the amp is really designed for.  I don't play clean, so for any cleaner parts I just roll back the guitar volume and increase the guitar's tone pot to 10.

    You say it's only for a few parts, in which case I'd stick with what you have on the amp and adjust the guitar input accordingly.
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  • Modulus_AmpsModulus_Amps Frets: 1508
    tFB Trader
    two amps is the easy solution.

    To use the one amp you really need a dual EQ pedal, the first stage goes before the amp to tone shape and cut the gain to keep it clean, the second eq stage goes into the effects loop to boost the signal back up, easy way to turn a single channel amp into a two channel amp, not sure if anybody makes anything like this but it would be easy to do with a couple fuzz dog kits

    Actually I thought the victory pre amps do something along these lines?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 49519
    edited March 26
    As you say, it's not really a channel-switching amp, it's a single channel amp with a boost mode. The best you can probably do is to use the clean channel with the gain just below the point it starts to clip, then switch to the lead channel and use a pedal at the same time to make up the difference if the gain is then too low. That means two footswitch presses, and it might still not give you the sound you want... maybe not on either channel.

    A possible work-around is to use a Boss LS-2 with the amp's preamp in one of the loops (guitar to input, send B to amp input, amp FX send to return B, output to amp FX return), select A/B, and use the LS-2 A level control to control the clean volume.

    Edit - my mistake, the FX loop is pre-EQ on the Jubilee! That means that this should actually work quite well.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • darcymdarcym Frets: 1187
    I'm all in for 2 amps if I wanted to go down this route, my little Jackson Ampworks head is really tiny and has a great marshall clean with loads of headroom, little 1x12 for it and I'm sorted. 

    Let the Jubilee do what it was meant to do.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 49519
    edited March 26
    I just checked the schematic and realised I was wrong in my earlier post - the FX loop on the Jubilee is pre-EQ, so using the LS-2 to bypass the amp's preamp should work well - assuming the EQ you want for the clean is similar to what you want for the lead.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 1524
    edited March 26
    two amps is the easy solution.

    To use the one amp you really need a dual EQ pedal, the first stage goes before the amp to tone shape and cut the gain to keep it clean, the second eq stage goes into the effects loop to boost the signal back up, easy way to turn a single channel amp into a two channel amp, not sure if anybody makes anything like this but it would be easy to do with a couple fuzz dog kits

    Actually I thought the victory pre amps do something along these lines?
    Boss EQ200 does that I think.

    I just treat my Jubilee as a single channel amp and clean up with the guitar volume. A pedal that can cut volume also seems to work nicely if you want it footswitchable (I've used my LPB1 for this).
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  • darcymdarcym Frets: 1187
    the amount of gain and volume I'm running, the guitar clean up doesn't work great. 

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  • PhilKingPhilKing Frets: 742
    I used to use a Silver Jubilee combo and a Princeton Reverb II for the clean.  That gave me all I wanted (with the advantage of having some reverb on my clean sound).  Since the Silver Jubilee 1x12 combo is pretty small, it sat nicely on top of the Princeton.
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  • MichaelATMichaelAT Frets: 9
    Indeed, if you look at famous Jubilee users (Slash, Frusciante, Bonamassa), they all use multiple amps as the Jube simply cannot do it all in one. I gigged for many years with a 2550 (weekend warrior), and I was always fighting the misaligned channels. Guitar volume pot + EQ in the loop are good tips and certainly help, but they will only get you so far. Marshall could have easily fixed this with a "Mk2" reissue...
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  • darcymdarcym Frets: 1187
    MichaelAT said:
    Indeed, if you look at famous Jubilee users (Slash, Frusciante, Bonamassa), they all use multiple amps as the Jube simply cannot do it all in one. I gigged for many years with a 2550 (weekend warrior), and I was always fighting the misaligned channels. Guitar volume pot + EQ in the loop are good tips and certainly help, but they will only get you so far. Marshall could have easily fixed this with a "Mk2" reissue...
    happy for them not to change a really good rock amp.
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  • TwinfanTwinfan Frets: 1621
    Me too.  If you don't need clean it's brilliant!
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  • hywelghywelg Frets: 3234
    I'm sure there'd be something in the Ceriatone range that would do exactly what you need.  
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 11460
    Does the amp have an FX loop?

    You could get a bright onion A/B looper or similar and put the preamp in loop one and something like a Tech21 Blonde in loop 2. 

    Handsome_Chris said: Like white Nile Rodgers. 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 5312
    I used to gig the original Jubilee in the late eighties and early nineties and I used to drive it into a home made power brake to get the high gain I wanted ...  and for clean I used EMG equipped guitars and by turning on the volume a small amount I used to get a great Marshall clean sound. Not that shimmering bell like Fender tone but a good basic Marshall clean ... good for stuff like Paradise City etc
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • MichaelATMichaelAT Frets: 9
    Twinfan said:
    Me too.  If you don't need clean it's brilliant!
    100 % agree! But look at the dilemma of the OP (and many other owners...)!
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  • ljsljs Frets: 20
    As said by the other guys, the jubilee is not a genuine multichannel amp. And I agree using pedals to get nice overdriven sound whilst using a jubilee is lame...

    Why not using pedals to get your clean sound? You could try lowering the volume on the guitar and using a compressor and/or a clean boost for the clean parts? 

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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 13489
    gjonesy said:
    there was a pedal that was designed to back off an overdriven amp, I think it was Paul Gilbert sig - underdrive or detox or something
    Detox by Homebrew

    The Underdrive was a Mad Professor pedal.

    Can be done with any good EQ pedal.



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  • musteatbrainmusteatbrain Frets: 657
    edited April 5
    Does the boss EQ 200 looks a good bet as you can lower the pre amp gain and boost the effects loop at the same time?

    The best clean tone I can get from mine is on the lead channel with the guitar volume almost off and a big clean boost in the loop.


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 49519
    That’s why I suggested the LS-2 :). That way you get the unaltered lead sound, but bypass the amp’s overdrive section completely for the clean. The LS-2 will provide the level control for the loop.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • musteatbrainmusteatbrain Frets: 657
    Sorry I’d not looked at that as much as I should have done.
    now I’m torn between buying the EQ200 which I don’t really need right now as I’m stuck at home and the LS2 which I also don’t really need right now. :)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 49519
    edited April 5
    Sorry I’d not looked at that as much as I should have done.
    now I’m torn between buying the EQ200 which I don’t really need right now as I’m stuck at home and the LS2 which I also don’t really need right now.
    Both of them are hugely useful pedals, not just for this. Buy used, then if you later find you don't need it, sell at little or no loss.

    If you can't find a second hand EQ200, there's the older EQ-20. There are two in the shop I work for, but unfortunately they're closed at the moment...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • musteatbrainmusteatbrain Frets: 657
    https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/LS-2_e05.pdf

    So if I get an LS2, jumper the A loop and lower the volume and connect the B loop to my fx loop and boost the volume, bypass is my lead tone, stepping on it drops my pre-amp gain and boosts in the loop to raise up the overall volume, giving me a clean tone at the right volume.

    and it’s quite cheap.

    I think I’ll do that for now!

    thanks

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 49519

    So if I get an LS2, jumper the A loop and lower the volume and connect the B loop to my fx loop and boost the volume, bypass is my lead tone, stepping on it drops my pre-amp gain and boosts in the loop to raise up the overall volume, giving me a clean tone at the right volume.
    You don't need to jumper the A loop, the pedal does that internally when there's nothing in the jacks.

    Connect the guitar to the pedal input, the B send to the amp's input, the B return to the amp's FX send, and the pedal's output to the amp's FX return. Select A-B on the Mode, not bypass. Essentially you're then running the amp's overdrive section as a "pedal" in the B loop. I would set the B loop level to the centre - that way it won't affect the range of the controls on the amp. The A level should then give you enough boost to match the amp's volume.

    You can then also run different effects in the loops - if for example you only want chorus or reverb on your clean sound not the overdrive, just put the chorus/reverb pedal in the A loop.

    I should probably mention that I've never actually done it on a Jubilee :). Just on a couple of other amps with this problem - but I'm sure it will work.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • musteatbrainmusteatbrain Frets: 657
    Great. I’ll let you know how it turns out. Just ordered one
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  • ExorcistExorcist Frets: 519
    In an act of great heresy I used to gig with one, using a POD 2.0 into the effect return. Sounded epic... that's my useless piece of information for the day.
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  • BowksBowks Frets: 232
    I recall Paul GIlbert coming up with the Detox EQ pedal to overcome the very same issue. https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/homebrew-electronics-detox-eq-603398
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