Watch this man descend into madness

ijonty

So I think I'm slowly losing my mind.

All I'm trying to do is get a decent sound from Reaper, but failing repeatedly.

For the background, see here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/173528/decent-guitar-tones-in-reaper-with-mooer-radar#latest 

But in even more of a summary: Trying to use pedals via the Mooer Radar - sounds terrible.

I followed the advice in the previous thread. Got a good sound once, but when I tried to replicate it a few weeks later, hopeless.

I'm going to post short videos in here of my attempts to trouble-shoot, and any advice will definitely be welcome.

How should I start off? Just run one pedal into the Radar, into Reaper, and experiment from there? I've got a Marshall Guv'nor and a mini TS - which should I test to keep things as simple as possible?

Ta

J

p90fool

Do you play through an amp at all at home? What you're trying to do with your pedalboard is entirely possible, but plugging it into an amp and micing it up instantly solves all your problems and it's amazing how quietly you can run the amp, especially with the judicious use of a few cushions or duvets. 

If you're recording an album in the same room as a sleeping baby ignore me, but you might be very surprised at the results you get from close micing a quiet amp. 

Winny_Pooh

If the Juice has a cabsim then using it and the radar is not good.
Using the radar with just drive pedals is not good.
Try a preamp with no speaker sim before the radar.
Or then give up and buy an amplifire or helix stomp.

ijonty

p90fool said:

Do you play through an amp at all at home? What you're trying to do with your pedalboard is entirely possible, but plugging it into an amp and micing it up instantly solves all your problems and it's amazing how quietly you can run the amp, especially with the judicious use of a few cushions or duvets. 

If you're recording an album in the same room as a sleeping baby ignore me, but you might be very surprised at the results you get from close micing a quiet amp. 

Good point, but my amp is at a mate’s house and can’t collect it now as I’m staying home. Plus I do have a young daughter I’m trying not to disturb. 

ijonty

Winny_Pooh said:

If the Juice has a cabsim then using it and the radar is not good.
Using the radar with just drive pedals is not good.
Try a preamp with no speaker sim before the radar.
Or then give up and buy an amplifire or helix stomp.

At the moment, I’m just testing with an overdrive into the Radar. Do you mean I should try the Guv into Juice with cabsim turned off, into Radar? Should I add a compressor at the start too? Don't want to add too much so I keep potential variables to a minimum.

digitalscream

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

ijonty

digitalscream said:

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

I guess a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I want to recreate the sound I get during rehearsal from my pedals, rather than just find a good sound in Reaper. I don't have my amp at the moment, so can't just mic that up.

Secondly, I'm hopeless with amp sims in Reaper, and don't even know what an IR loader is! My overall knowledge of Reaper and DAWs in general is quite basic.

digitalscream

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

I guess a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I want to recreate the sound I get during rehearsal from my pedals, rather than just find a good sound in Reaper. I don't have my amp at the moment, so can't just mic that up.

Secondly, I'm hopeless with amp sims in Reaper, and don't even know what an IR loader is! My overall knowledge of Reaper and DAWs in general is quite basic.

Okay...you can easily do that.

It seems to me that your problem is trying to make your pedal rig sound like your amp rig, without any kind of amp-like block in the middle of it.

I would suggest ditching your cab emulation (ie remove the Radar from the signal path). Go straight from your board into your interface, then install a free amp sim most similar to what you've got in real life. The Le Pou sims are probably the best place to start:

http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?dev=LePou

Simply install one and load it into the effects on the track you've created in Reaper.

Then, you need an Impulse Response loader - this does the same job as the Radar, but the key difference is that you're putting it after the amp sim. You'll need to get some IRs (tiny files which define the sound of the speaker you're emulating). You could go and get any of the big packs that are free, but honestly...if you're getting started, Lancaster's Pulse is great because it has a built-in IR that you can use without loading any other files in:

https://lancasteraudio.com/pulse/

Put that in the effects chain after the amp, and you should be golden.

ijonty

digitalscream said:

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

I guess a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I want to recreate the sound I get during rehearsal from my pedals, rather than just find a good sound in Reaper. I don't have my amp at the moment, so can't just mic that up.

Secondly, I'm hopeless with amp sims in Reaper, and don't even know what an IR loader is! My overall knowledge of Reaper and DAWs in general is quite basic.

Okay...you can easily do that.

It seems to me that your problem is trying to make your pedal rig sound like your amp rig, without any kind of amp-like block in the middle of it.

I would suggest ditching your cab emulation (ie remove the Radar from the signal path). Go straight from your board into your interface, then install a free amp sim most similar to what you've got in real life. The Le Pou sims are probably the best place to start:

http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?dev=LePou

Simply install one and load it into the effects on the track you've created in Reaper.

Then, you need an Impulse Response loader - this does the same job as the Radar, but the key difference is that you're putting it after the amp sim. You'll need to get some IRs (tiny files which define the sound of the speaker you're emulating). You could go and get any of the big packs that are free, but honestly...if you're getting started, Lancaster's Pulse is great because it has a built-in IR that you can use without loading any other files in:

https://lancasteraudio.com/pulse/

Put that in the effects chain after the amp, and you should be golden.

This is really helpful, thanks! I have a Cornell Romany - any tips on an appropriate free amp sim? Or just try a few from Le Pou?

digitalscream

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

I guess a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I want to recreate the sound I get during rehearsal from my pedals, rather than just find a good sound in Reaper. I don't have my amp at the moment, so can't just mic that up.

Secondly, I'm hopeless with amp sims in Reaper, and don't even know what an IR loader is! My overall knowledge of Reaper and DAWs in general is quite basic.

Okay...you can easily do that.

It seems to me that your problem is trying to make your pedal rig sound like your amp rig, without any kind of amp-like block in the middle of it.

I would suggest ditching your cab emulation (ie remove the Radar from the signal path). Go straight from your board into your interface, then install a free amp sim most similar to what you've got in real life. The Le Pou sims are probably the best place to start:

http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?dev=LePou

Simply install one and load it into the effects on the track you've created in Reaper.

Then, you need an Impulse Response loader - this does the same job as the Radar, but the key difference is that you're putting it after the amp sim. You'll need to get some IRs (tiny files which define the sound of the speaker you're emulating). You could go and get any of the big packs that are free, but honestly...if you're getting started, Lancaster's Pulse is great because it has a built-in IR that you can use without loading any other files in:

https://lancasteraudio.com/pulse/

Put that in the effects chain after the amp, and you should be golden.

This is really helpful, thanks! I have a Cornell Romany - any tips on an appropriate free amp sim? Or just try a few from Le Pou?

I'd say try a few - although the Marshall one set at low gain should get you close...? Perhaps the Soldano or Mesa clean channels, too.

mudslide73

Le Pou ftw. His Marshall head is called HyBrit and will do everything from JTM/Plexi stuff all the way to AFD/JVM sounds. His IR loader is called LeCab. You can run multiple IRs and blend them. There's a lovely free V30 1x12 IR from Celestion on their website to get you going too. 

I've plugged my board straight into the interface with good results. 

ijonty

mudslide73 said:

Le Pou ftw. His Marshall head is called HyBrit and will do everything from JTM/Plexi stuff all the way to AFD/JVM sounds. His IR loader is called LeCab. You can run multiple IRs and blend them. There's a lovely free V30 1x12 IR from Celestion on their website to get you going too. 

I've plugged my board straight into the interface with good results. 

Is this the one you mean? https://www.celestionplus.com/free-download/

ijonty

digitalscream said:

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

ijonty said:

digitalscream said:

Why not just use a free amp sim and an IR loader in Reaper instead?

I guess a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I want to recreate the sound I get during rehearsal from my pedals, rather than just find a good sound in Reaper. I don't have my amp at the moment, so can't just mic that up.

Secondly, I'm hopeless with amp sims in Reaper, and don't even know what an IR loader is! My overall knowledge of Reaper and DAWs in general is quite basic.

Okay...you can easily do that.

It seems to me that your problem is trying to make your pedal rig sound like your amp rig, without any kind of amp-like block in the middle of it.

I would suggest ditching your cab emulation (ie remove the Radar from the signal path). Go straight from your board into your interface, then install a free amp sim most similar to what you've got in real life. The Le Pou sims are probably the best place to start:

Presumably I don't need the Donner Juice either?

mudslide73

ijonty said:

mudslide73 said:

Le Pou ftw. His Marshall head is called HyBrit and will do everything from JTM/Plexi stuff all the way to AFD/JVM sounds. His IR loader is called LeCab. You can run multiple IRs and blend them. There's a lovely free V30 1x12 IR from Celestion on their website to get you going too. 

I've plugged my board straight into the interface with good results. 

Is this the one you mean? https://www.celestionplus.com/free-download/

Yep that's the one.

mrleon83

Have you tried wall of sound by two notes? It has a power amp sim built in along with the cabs... 

ijonty

mrleon83 said:

Have you tried wall of sound by two notes? It has a power amp sim built in along with the cabs... 

I'm totally new to this, so no - is that an alternative to the Le Pou?

ijonty

Ok @mudslide73 and @digitalscream I got the plugins you suggested, and now the Lancaster in Reaper looks like this (I've added the V30 1x12 IR in too:




Do I need to worry about any of the dials running along the bottom? And is it built so you can run two at once - left and right?

And I've set this up:



Do I need anything else? (Not testing it out yet, just getting stuff set up while I work)

Someone told me it's also best not to use a reverb pedal on my board, and instead do that in Reaper - is that the best way, and again, do I just use Reaper's Reaverb, or is there an easy free one I should get?

Thanks so much for all your help with this!

digitalscream

ijonty said:

Ok @mudslide73 and @digitalscream I got the plugins you suggested, and now the Lancaster in Reaper looks like this (I've added the V30 1x12 IR in too:




Do I need to worry about any of the dials running along the bottom? And is it built so you can run two at once - left and right?

And I've set this up:



Do I need anything else? (Not testing it out yet, just getting stuff set up while I work)

Someone told me it's also best not to use a reverb pedal on my board, and instead do that in Reaper - is that the best way, and again, do I just use Reaper's Reaverb, or is there an easy free one I should get?

Thanks so much for all your help with this!

Yeah, that's the one. Just remember - you want the amp above Pulse in the effects window (you can drag and drop to reorder), otherwise it's going to sound like crap.

About the reverb...if you're not using loads of gain, it won't make massive amounts of difference. And even if you are...give it a go, see what you like (it's just different, not better/worse).

That's the beauty of all this; you can experiment without spending any money at all.

ijonty

Here's my update. With the above set up, guitar straight into Focusrite without pedals, this is what it sounds like:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OAUDcKOw3akhG1gTAsExE9ZXRgONuM_W

Is that what it's supposed to sound like?

Settings in Reaper:

digitalscream

Yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. I'm no judge of clean sounds, mind you - my "clean" is most people's "mid-gain"

mudslide73

That sounds like it's working to me. Thanks for letting us know.