New bridge pickup for Gibson SG Special

Alfi27

Hey guys,

I just got myself a Gibson CS SG Special VOS, which is probably the coolest looking guitar I've seen in a while, and it plays and feels even better! Unfortunately I'm not crazy about the tone (bridge pickup primarily), I removed the bridge pickup cover and the pickup looked a bit strange, though after doing a bit of research it is probably an original Gibson. The measurement seems a bit off though, at around 8k. Most measurements I've seen for Gibson P90s are around 9k. Another issue is that the pickup is stupid close to the strings, and the pickup cavity is really really shallow. This is probably contributing to the sound not being up to par, and I'm worried I might have to get a luthier to deepen it to get it fully where I want it to be - especially if I'm putting in a high output pickup with stronger magnets. 

So yeah, I don't want to give up on the guitar because it's amazing, so I'll try a new pickup first and then we'll see how that goes. The original pickup is too bright and twangy for me, a little "too Tele-esque" shortly summarised. I do play with fairly heavy distortion at times but not metal - think high gain hard rock. This is a good tone reference, I know he uses a Seymour Duncan Antiquity but the thicker Les Paul body gives it a little more meat than my SG. Of course there are some insane offerings like Bare Knuckle's Pig 90, but I don't want to kill the entire P90 sound/vibe. I reckon the Supermassive or maaybe the Stockholm could work, but never tried any of them. Monty's Guitars in London also have some cool offerings, I tried their "Full Monty" in a LP Jr which was alright, but I think the guitar was the limit in that case. A bit curious about their Leviathan, I must say. 

If you have any recommandations/experiences/thoughts at all, I'd really appreciate if you shared them! Cheers 

TTBZ

The Pig 90 is really good and I think keeps some of the P90 vibe. It's great under high gain - with the volume up full it's almost like a humbucker but a bit looser, roll down the volume and you get a bit more of that P90 grit and feel.  

Here's a clip of mine I did ages ago. I had a humbucker size one in the bridge position of my SG standard (wish I'd kept that pickup now!). The neck Mississippi Queen is also used on this for the lead. The intro and verse are all with the volume down, the chorus riff is with the volume up full. Into a Laney GH50L (wish I'd kept that amp too!)

Listen to 160311-2 by Tom Rogers on #SoundCloud

Jez6345789

Buying a new pickup is always fun and p90 are not super expensive. That said in these days of endless fx, modelling, pedals etc would be surprised if you could not get close to what I would call trashy Green Day sound with a little tweaking.

another cheap alternative would be to swap out the magnets for alnico 8 or ceramic 8. Yeah close to the bridge type of pickup is always going to be brighter but always found with p90 it’s always easier to improve a bright one than improve a dark sounding one.

As for magnetic pull I think this is something of an urban legend a p90 has twice the magnets of a humbucker does it sustain less?

sure the experts will be along and advise me otherwise lol but it’s never bothered me and I like my p90 close to the strings not close but like 4-5mm I guess never measure

SunDevil

Maybe a change in tone cap - higher value so more of the top end is rolled off when you roll the tone back?

..darn sight cheaper than a new pup!

Emiel

Try tinkering with the height of the polepieces and the pickup itself.

I generally like all polepieces flush to the pickup cover. The polepieces set higher will thin out the sound.

My starting point regarding pickup height for P90s/humbuckers is 4 mm ( no strings pressed) between the neck pickup and the strings, then set the bridge pickup to match the output.

Alfi27

Thanks dudes, a lot of good response here! The thing is, everything is as low as it can possibly be. Polepieces are screwed all the way in, as well as the pickup itself. The polepieces are still <1.5mm from the strings with open strings, so it's less than 1mm when the 22nd fret is fretted (high E is actually touching the polepiece when fretting 22nd fret). This is why I have decided to get the pickup routes routed a bit deeper, of course from a reputable luthier - but I still want a new pickup, possibly a set. 

Here's a pic, all open strings. It doesn't look as bad as it is, but I couldn't fit my 2mm pick between the polepiece and string without the string moving (a lot). The sweet spot for bridge buckers and P90s is, in my experience, in the ballpark of 2mm with the 22nd fret fretted. So needless to say, I'm not even close... 

Emiel

Some like their P90's up real high, but I find this makes the tone too middy/hot, just like when you have set the input gain too high on a microphone. So dropping it a fair bit will make a difference.

P90's are really versatile pickups, and I honestly think that any set with enough output will get you a tone similar to Green Day's (don't forget the Marshall). Billie Joe Armstrong uses the Gibson H90, which is a stacked high output pickup (13k).

Alfi27

Emiel said:

Some like their P90's up real high, but I find this makes the tone too middy/hot, just like when you have set the input gain too high on a microphone. So dropping it a fair bit will make a difference.

P90's are really versatile pickups, and I honestly think that any set with enough output will get you a tone similar to Green Day's (don't forget the Marshall). Billie Joe Armstrong uses the Gibson H90, which is a stacked high output pickup (13k).

Yeah it's definitely too close, so that needs to be sorted. Regarding BJA, his signature Junior had H90s but he never used that himself. He uses Seymour Duncan Antiquity in everything, apart from his vintage Juniors which I assume have the originals. Don't know how he can swing unpotted pickups with that much gain though, they almost have to be potted... 

Winny_Pooh

I'd drop the height before replacing it, with the right magnet 8k is a good range. 
As the polepieces are longer and probably stick out the bottom, you may be able to get better height by just chiselling out a small centre channel for them and the cable in the middle of the rout yourself  

Eg

Alfi27

Winny_Pooh said:

I'd drop the height before replacing it, with the right magnet 8k is a good range. 
As the polepieces are longer and probably stick out the bottom, you may be able to get better height by just chiselling out a small centre channel for them and the cable in the middle of the rout yourself  

Eg

Thanks for the suggestion, but "unfortunately" there is already a channel to accommodate the screws. I took the pickup out and it was still not possible to tighten them any more, the hindrance is the bobbin and not the guitar. But this appears to be an issue with these particular pickups, I talked to Monty's Guitars and apparently their pole pieces have more range and can be screwed in below the cover.