Hardtail Strat tension

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DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
I've made myself a hardtail strat partscaster and I seem to be struggling with string tension.

The neck is a USACG birds eye maple and rosewood. 2 string trees, frets are jumbo, radius looks to be flattish.

I would usually put 9.5 gauge strings on a trem strat, so I put 10s on. Immediately noticed the strings felt too tight, and sort of scratchy? 
I lowered the saddles and that improved ability to bend but it still feels very stiff. 
Swapped to 9.5s but not a great improvement so I put it in Eb and still I'm really not liking it. Theres something about when I first attack the string that sounds scratchy and weird.

I'm not sure what the problem is? I've had tons of guitars of all variety and I've never really cared or noticed swapping between bridges, scales, string gauge etc. I had this same issue on a Mexican Tele about 10 years ago and I ended up selling it. Never had a guitar do it again since and I've had loads.
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Comments

  • StevepageStevepage Frets: 3040
    Probably because the trem on a strat will move slightly when playing, whereas there's no give with a hardtail. 
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  • guitargeek62guitargeek62 Frets: 4067
    Aye, try 9s on there instead
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  • SchnozzSchnozz Frets: 1926
    I have a hard tail with 10s on and no problems. What's the neck relief like? Have you tried 9s.

    Scratchy sounds like the frets need polishing up.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26754
    It should feel basically like a Tele, which is to say very similar to a regular strat. 

    Schnozz said:

    Scratchy sounds like the frets need polishing up.
    Agree with this
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    DefaultM said:
    I've made myself a hardtail strat partscaster and I seem to be struggling with string tension.

    The neck is a USACG birds eye maple and rosewood. 2 string trees, frets are jumbo, radius looks to be flattish.

    I would usually put 9.5 gauge strings on a trem strat, so I put 10s on. Immediately noticed the strings felt too tight, and sort of scratchy? 
    I lowered the saddles and that improved ability to bend but it still feels very stiff. 
    Swapped to 9.5s but not a great improvement so I put it in Eb and still I'm really not liking it. Theres something about when I first attack the string that sounds scratchy and weird.

    I'm not sure what the problem is? I've had tons of guitars of all variety and I've never really cared or noticed swapping between bridges, scales, string gauge etc. I had this same issue on a Mexican Tele about 10 years ago and I ended up selling it. Never had a guitar do it again since and I've had loads.
    That's because the note attack on a hardtail Strat is very like that on a Telecaster. What you're hearing and feeling is normal for a hardtail Strat - the string tension itself isn't higher, but the stiffness when you bend a note, or even fret a string if the action isn't super-low, is because there's no give in the bridge at all as Stevepage said.

    So unfortunately the answer is that you need to replace the body with a trem one.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    Angles. Neck pitch. Over the nut, towards the string posts. Over the saddles, towards the anchoring points.

    Hardtail always sends strings through two bends, ending perpendicular to the main string path. Unless set flush against the body, a fulcrum vibrato introduces a slightly shallower overall angle. (Admittedly, this is pretty marginal.)

    Have you changed string brand? If the core:wrap ratios differ, the tension could also differ.

    Schnozz said:
    What's the neck relief like?
    In similar vein, how skinny or chunky is the neck profile? 
    Be seeing you.
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    edited April 2020
    ICBM said:
    So unfortunately the answer is that you need to replace the body with a trem one.
    I like that conclusion.

    I'm a fan of hardtail Strats, I've had a few over the years and even ordered one from Fender Custom Shop because they're pretty much impossible to buy off the shelf.  In the last few years, having avoided all tremolo systems for many years, I've grown to like the vintage-style Fender bridge so I've now got a couple of those too.

    I don't notice a massive difference in feel or tension going back and forth between hardtail and non-hardtail, but maybe I'm just used to it now.

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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    edited April 2020
    I've had a look at neck relief. I clamped the first fret and then fretted the highest fret on the E string. I don't have any measuring devices, but I can see there's no gap to measure at the 8th fret. So that means it's curved up like a bridge and I need to make dip instead?
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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9552
    Philly_Q said:In the last few years, having avoided all tremolo systems for many years, I've grown to like the vintage-style Fender bridge so I've now got a couple of those too.

    Like you I've avoided guitars with trems for ages. Then a few years back I bought a Strat on a whim and realised I actually preferred the feel over my hardtail guitars. Feels a bit more 'slinky' and less percussive than, say, a Tele.
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    DefaultM said:
    I've had a look at neck relief. I clamped the first fret and then fretted the highest fret on the E string. I don't have any measuring devices, but I can see there's no gap to measure at the 8th fret. So that means it's curved up like a bridge and I need to make dip instead?
    Were you holding the guitar normally? If it's lying down flat the weight of the neck will do that.

    If you were, then you need to loosen the truss rod very slightly - you do want a tiny gap, but it can be *really* tiny and still be right, as long as the strings don't rattle in the lower positions.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    lol yes I was. I've held it properly now and there's a very very slight gap. I'll try loosen it a quarter turn.
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    It's definitely better!
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    Going to need to go down to 9's. I thought Id got close to where I like it, then I went back to my other guitars for comparison and nope!
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    I have a hardtail 69 strat and use 9's on it, same as all my other electric guitars. The tension isn't noticeably different to my Telecaster or trem Strat.
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    Do the truss rod tweaks take a while to settle down or something? I put it on the stand for a month, played it again and its completely different now!
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  • rossirossi Frets: 1699
    Can you get a top loader bridge .?I have a one on my Tele mainly as there a no holes in the body for strings .I thought I saw a top loader for  hard tail strats  once
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  • stonevibestonevibe Frets: 7083
    Fender Mod Shop now offers hard tail Strat option.

    I have a Fender Billy Corgan Strat and it is super slinky, but it does have some big ol' frets on it, so probably helps with the grip. I string it with 10s and it plays really smoothly.

    Win a Cort G250 SE Guitar in our Guitar Bomb Free UK Giveaway 


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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3300
    stonevibe said:
    Fender Mod Shop now offers hard tail Strat option.

    I have a Fender Billy Corgan Strat and it is super slinky, but it does have some big ol' frets on it, so probably helps with the grip. I string it with 10s and it plays really smoothly.
    Show off ;)
    They sold out pretty quick and now go for silly money. 
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  • stonevibestonevibe Frets: 7083
    I had two when they came out! 

    Win a Cort G250 SE Guitar in our Guitar Bomb Free UK Giveaway 


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  • SchnozzSchnozz Frets: 1926
    My hardtail has a top loader with 10s and has less tension than my thru body Tele with 10s, so +1 for that option.
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