How to play the Blues - well

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  • PhilW1PhilW1 Frets: 941
    PhilW1 said:

    Hate to jump on the bandwagon especially after you more than sorted me out with Thin Lizzy but could you do me too, if it ain’t askin too much . Thanks
    done :)
    Thanks so much mate, really appreciate it.
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  • @Vibetronic Sharing is caring! Cheers. :)
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  • TrevinDevonTrevinDevon Frets: 28
    edited June 2020
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  • VinylfanVinylfan Frets: 33
    @Vibetronic - thanks so much! You're a star.
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  • nickpnickp Frets: 183
    I've been in this place for a while with semi sporadic practice.  What i've got so far is - pentatonic all over the neck - 5 shapes practiced up and down but also along the neck so I can move within it fairly well - that's sort of metronome based stuff.  I've also done some sequencing - so the patterns of three, four fives and sixes as well as intervals (4ths is the most common) to get the finger roll thing going.

    On top of that I've learned the mixolydian and the dominant 7th arpeggios.

    This is the "boring" repetitive graft that can be quite attractive beause it's mindless repetition to a metronome to stitch the stuff together.

    The problems I have are now twofold - insuffient vocabulary and trying to put it all together - putting it together for me means noodling over blues progressions using arpeggios only, or using scales and arpeggios - it's not very musical sometimes but it' seems to be about getting the sounds in my head.  When I do solo and go for it, some of this shit is now coming back out.  However I find this really painful as it's difficult to measure progress (compared to metronome repetition) and it sounds so shite a lot of the time!!

    Getting Vocab for me goes back to learning tunes and solos - so I'm grafting away at SRV stuff - not only does this improve my rhythm playing but also because I like to play note for note then i'm internalising and learning extra techniques.  But because I've done some theory i'm able to recognise what SRV for instance is doing over a chord.  I am on my 4th SRV song and it's really starting to make a positive impact :)

    It's instructive say on the texas flood album to realise how much SRV sticks to position 1 of the pentatonic, and the licks he uses again and again over that album but with varying delivery and timing - which is where the "genius" is I guess, so it sounds fresh

    it's also helful to be able to recognise when he's concentrating on chord tones or buggering off to the mixolydian.

    I'm starting to hear and play better now as a result but it's a lot of work but it's why I guess the geniuses spent hours playing and ripping off their predecessors, to internalise vocabulary and then regugitate it in their own style

    forgot to say - have spent a bit (not enough) time with starting and playing a blues in different root positions to try to get fluency moving between the blues chords in different positions of the blues scale


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  • VinylfanVinylfan Frets: 33
    Well that sounds like you're making good progress!  I too have started to notice that many players that sound great are playing a small selection of notes/licks again and again.  But as you say, their delivery is superb along with their timing etc. etc. so doesn't sound repetitive.
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  • pjfpjf Frets: 330
    PhilW1 said:

    Hate to jump on the bandwagon especially after you more than sorted me out with Thin Lizzy but could you do me too, if it ain’t askin too much . Thanks
    done :)
    Me too, if it’s no trouble? I’ll PM my email :)
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    pjf said:
    PhilW1 said:

    Hate to jump on the bandwagon especially after you more than sorted me out with Thin Lizzy but could you do me too, if it ain’t askin too much . Thanks
    done :)
    Me too, if it’s no trouble? I’ll PM my email :)
    pm'd :)
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  • BarnezyBarnezy Frets: 2173
    Step 1. Loose your woman, money and possessions.

    Step 2. Do a deal with the Devil.

    Step 3. Find a good teacher. 

    I've just started taking lessons again and it's great. The first 3 have involved literally 10 minutes of guitar playing. He's taking me over caged, triad and 7 chords, arpeggios, degrees, intervals, scales etc. The real fundamentals. Next lesson we're pulling it together in to a song. I'm learning and re-learning alot that will hopefully give me freedom to play and not be restricted to licks and scale shapes. That's the plan anyway. 
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  • BarnezyBarnezy Frets: 2173
    Watch this the other day and was a bit of a lightbulb moment. 


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  • finest1finest1 Frets: 94
    @MagicPigDetective ;

    hi, don't despair, I'm in that situation too.

    i'm quite good with blues rhythm and shuffles, when I go to lead playing, it just doesn't sound good. its almost like I need to know what my picking hand needs to be doing. I just can't work it out. scales, theory all fine....

    Keith Wyatt's stuff on youtube is really good, I agree with the comments above 

    good luck
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  • finest1finest1 Frets: 94
    roberty said:
    I've got a couple of really good books, I've just been teaching from one of them! Have dropped you an email  =) It's really good stuff, worked through and explained well. 
    I'd be interested in that if it's no bother mate
    No worries, I’ll send them on either this evening/tomorrow morning  =)

    I'd be interested to see what that book is. 
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    finest1 said:
    roberty said:
    I've got a couple of really good books, I've just been teaching from one of them! Have dropped you an email  =) It's really good stuff, worked through and explained well. 
    I'd be interested in that if it's no bother mate
    No worries, I’ll send them on either this evening/tomorrow morning  =)

    I'd be interested to see what that book is. 
    I've pm'd you mate  =)
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  • Thought I'd post here again as I've found a course that is totally delivering what I was on about in my OP. I recently subscribed to Truefire (which I'm very impressed with) and started a course by Massimo Varini, called Blues Soloing Unboxed. It explains how to use the mixolydian scale on the I, IV and V chord... dominant arpeggios etc. It has really got me to understand the use of additional notes outside the pentatonic box.... not just knowing what notes sound good, but why they sound good, and starting to play something that sounds like proper blues soloing, using the right notes at the changes etc. A lot of connections being made in my head from existing knowledge to the material on this course. I'm halfway through it and so for it's exactly what I was after. 

    Any other recommended course on Truefire?


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  • kelpbedskelpbeds Frets: 181
    edited March 2022
    Thought I'd post here again as I've found a course that is totally delivering what I was on about in my OP. I recently subscribed to Truefire (which I'm very impressed with) and started a course by Massimo Varini, called Blues Soloing Unboxed. It explains how to use the mixolydian scale on the I, IV and V chord... dominant arpeggios etc. It has really got me to understand the use of additional notes outside the pentatonic box.... not just knowing what notes sound good, but why they sound good, and starting to play something that sounds like proper blues soloing, using the right notes at the changes etc. A lot of connections being made in my head from existing knowledge to the material on this course. I'm halfway through it and so for it's exactly what I was after. 

    Any other recommended course on Truefire?


    There is a massive amount of material on my Youtube channel that is totally dedicated to Blues that will really help you. I've taught this material to a huge amount of students also and it has been very well received.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBTSHf5NqVQDz0LzW2PC1Lw
    Check out my Blues lessons channel at:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBTSHf5NqVQDz0LzW2PC1Lw
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 2723
    If you want to explore a genre fully, you need to listen to a lot of music.

    This might upset a few people, but whilst the Beano album is seen a seminal blues album, in my opinion it's not very good, and I suggest getting away from this asap.

    It's now a lot easier to find stuff then when I were lad.

    I suggest checking out the following artists:

    Freddie King
    Otis Rush cobra recordings (includes original version of All Your Love backed by Ike Turner)
    Johnny Guitar Watson 50's era
    Ike Turner pre- Ike and Tina Turner review, he backed and produced a ton of artists.
    Bobby Bland, 50's to early 60's
    Earl King
    Guitar Slim
    Magic Sam
    BB King from the 50's to early 60s (he playes very differently than he does from the late 60's).
    Smiley Lewis


    For more comtempory players checkout:

    Anson Funderburg (one of my all time favourites)
    Kid Ramos
    Charlie Baty
    Fabulous Thunderbirds first 4 albums
    Mike Keller
    Johnny Moeller
    Nick Curran
    Junior Watson
    Kirk Fletcher
    Dylan Bishop
    Ronnie Earl (his playing on 3 Hours Past Midnight from Roomful of Blues Live At Lupos is a masterpiece).


    Having a good repetoire of songs (which really shouldn't be that hard to acquire; it's not jazz!!) will help you expand you vocabulary, and also help you play with other musicians.



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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited March 2022
    RULES OF THE BLUES

    1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning..."
    2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, unless you stick something nasty in the next line like, "I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town."
    3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes... sort of:
    "Got a good woman with the meanest face in town.
    Yes, I got a good woman with the meanest face in town.
    Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher, and she weigh 500 pound."
    4. The Blues is not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch--ain't no way out.
    5. Blues cars: Chevys, Fords, Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and company motor pools don't feature at all. Walking' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.
    6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.
    7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in Minneapolis or Seattle is probably just clinical depression. Clarksdale, Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.
    8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cause you were skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg 'cause a alligator is chompin' on it is.
    9. You can't have no Blues in a office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.
    10. Good places for the Blues:
    a. Highway
    b. Jailhouse
    c. An empty bed
    d. Bottom of a whiskey glass
    11. Bad places for the Blues:
    a. Woolworths
    b. Gallery openings
    c. Universities
    d. Golf courses
    12. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be a old ethnic person, and you slept in it.
    13. You have the right to sing the Blues if:
    a. You older than dirt
    b. You blind
    c. You shot a man in Memphis
    d. You can't be satisfied
    14. You don't have the right to sing the Blues if:
    a. You have all your teeth
    b. You were once blind but now can see
    c. The man in Memphis lived
    d. You have a pension fund
    15. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Sonny Liston could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.
    16. If you ask for water and your darlin' give you gasoline, it's the Blues.
    17. Other acceptable Blues beverages are:
    a. Cheap wine
    b. Whiskey or bourbon
    c. Muddy water
    d. Nasty black coffee
    18. The following are NOT Blues beverages:
    a. Perrier
    b. Chardonnay
    c. Johnny Walker Blue
    d. Cape Velvet
    19. If death occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse and dying lonely on a broke-down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or while getting liposuction.
    20. Some Blues names for women:
    a. Sadie
    b. Big Mama
    c. Bessie
    d. Fat River Dumpling
    21. Some Blues names for men:
    a. Joe
    b. Willie
    c. Little Willie
    d. Big Willie
    22. Persons with names like Michelle, Amber, Debbie, and Heather can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.
    23. Make your own Blues name Starter Kit:
    a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.)
    b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Melon, Kiwi, etc.)
    c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) For example: Blind Lime Jefferson, Jackleg Lemon Johnson or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.")
    24. I don't care how tragic your life: if you own even one computer, you cannot sing the blues.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4126
    edited March 2022
    jpfamps said:
    If you want to explore a genre fully, you need to listen to a lot of music.

    This might upset a few people, but whilst the Beano album is seen a seminal blues album, in my opinion it's not very good, and I suggest getting away from this asap.

    It's now a lot easier to find stuff then when I were lad.

    I suggest checking out the following artists:

    Freddie King
    Otis Rush cobra recordings (includes original version of All Your Love backed by Ike Turner)
    Johnny Guitar Watson 50's era
    Ike Turner pre- Ike and Tina Turner review, he backed and produced a ton of artists.
    Bobby Bland, 50's to early 60's
    Earl King
    Guitar Slim
    Magic Sam
    BB King from the 50's to early 60s (he playes very differently than he does from the late 60's).
    Smiley Lewis


    For more comtempory players checkout:

    Anson Funderburg (one of my all time favourites)
    Kid Ramos
    Charlie Baty
    Fabulous Thunderbirds first 4 albums
    Mike Keller
    Johnny Moeller
    Nick Curran
    Junior Watson
    Kirk Fletcher
    Dylan Bishop
    Ronnie Earl (his playing on 3 Hours Past Midnight from Roomful of Blues Live At Lupos is a masterpiece).


    Having a good repetoire of songs (which really shouldn't be that hard to acquire; it's not jazz!!) will help you expand you vocabulary, and also help you play with other musicians.



    That's a great list and absolutely the best advice if, as per the OP, you want to play blues well. I would also add Hollywood Fats to the list too.

    To quote the late great James Harman (who you should also listen to) "use your instrument to play the blues, don't use the blues to play your instrument". You cannot get there through thinking about scales and licks and pentatonic positions without internalising all the different flavours of blues vocabulary through extensive listening. Through that listening process, latch onto the things that grab you, discard the things that don't (you're not "obliged" to like or learn anything specific...the greats all just focused on what they liked the sound of and wanted to be able to do).

    But it has to be a constant process and if you don't enjoy listening to blues records as much if not more than playing blues guitar, there's a slim chance you're going to end up as much of a blues player.

    You did ask "how to play the blues well", not "how to get into playing a bit of blues"
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    Whatever about playing the Blues, the mindless and needless quoting everything in a post by many on this thread really gives me the Blues as I try to read the contributions on my phone. 
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • MagicPigDetectiveMagicPigDetective Frets: 2992
    edited March 2022
    kelpbeds said:
    There is a massive amount of material on my Youtube channel that is totally dedicated to Blues that will really help you. I've taught this material to a huge amount of students also and it has been very well received.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBTSHf5NqVQDz0LzW2PC1Lw
    Thanks for that, yes you've got good lessons there, I'll be working through them. 

    Great recommendations @jpfamps ;;;;

    Thanks @Lewy, sound advice again. I suppose 'well' can mean different things, I think for me I meant to become more familiar with the three chords, what works over them, what works on the changes. I've been playing for years but not going to claim I'm particularly good but striving to improve. Using the major thirds and sevenths and major scale was not something I was comfortable with, and just stuck to minor. I agree, to play very well, I would need to totally immerse myself in it, perhaps it's like learning a language, you can get by with a few phrases, but to be truly fluent you have to immerse yourself. 

    I tend not to be able to stick with one genre/style, I have phases of playing maybe metal/doom, then cleaner/ambient styles, but then I keep going back to the blues, and feel this need to be able to play it better or competently. Perhaps I need to just dedicate a few months to it completely and see where it takes me. 

     
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