Demonstrations in Peckham today -Black Lives Matter

WiresDreamDisasters · June 2020

And there should be room for discussion and debate with all forms of authority. They need to start to listen and again I'll use the word, have DIALOGUE.

I've watched so many videos of people trying to explain context to the police when they're being arrested, and the fucking arseholes don't listen. Their motive is get the arrest at all costs. This is wrong.

...I know right... what a fucking fascist opinion to have.

tony99 · June 2020

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I agree with these demands, concepts, ideas, whatever you wanna call them.

You hear the old-timers often talk about how they KNEW the names of the police who patrolled their block when they were young, and the police knew theirs. I'm not delusional enough to think ahhhhhh those halcyon dayssssss but it seems to me there has been an increasing disconnect from the police and the communities they patrol. The emphasis has been on techno-gadget wizardy rather than talking to people. Condemnation and imprisonment rather than rehabilitation.

As a society we really need to get to a place where we see each other not as the enemy, but as potential friends and allies. We need to stop judging each other on immutable characteristics, how much money we earn, our jobs, our hobbies, our socio-economic backgrounds, and so on.

Robocop though

Fretwired · June 2020

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I agree with these demands, concepts, ideas, whatever you wanna call them.

You hear the old-timers often talk about how they KNEW the names of the police who patrolled their block when they were young, and the police knew theirs. I'm not delusional enough to think ahhhhhh those halcyon dayssssss but it seems to me there has been an increasing disconnect from the police and the communities they patrol. The emphasis has been on techno-gadget wizardy rather than talking to people. Condemnation and imprisonment rather than rehabilitation.

As a society we really need to get to a place where we see each other not as the enemy, but as potential friends and allies. We need to stop judging each other on immutable characteristics, how much money we earn, our jobs, our hobbies, our socio-economic backgrounds, and so on.

That will do nothing to address the underlying problem - the injustice of inequality, poverty, and a lack of access to education and training as well as healthcare. An old girlfriend of mine is a law professor in Baltimore (which has some major issues race wise) who does pro-bono work defending mostly black people. In the US there are black and white people with no hope - there's no welfare state like the UK and education costs money.

The people she defends usually have a criminal record, and dependency issues and are in trouble with the police. Looting tends to occurs with the have-nots have an opportunity to get goods they couldn't normally afford through looting. The ultimate expression of free market consumerism - I can't afford it so I'll steal it.

EdBoogie · June 2020

Please delete - the forum's gone crazy!

EdBoogie · June 2020

Please delete

EdBoogie · June 2020

Please delete

EdBoogie · June 2020

Please delete

EdBoogie · June 2020

TTony said:

EdBoogie said:

Dominic said:

Not really sure why we have it here when it's nothing to do with the UK .Maybe just an excuse to cause trouble.

Let me guess... you're white

And that’s a racist comment.

Heya,

Sorry - how so? If the OP thinks it's 'nothing to do with the UK' except 'maybe just an excuse to cause trouble' - I think it's a logical and sensible assumption that he is not a black person, and also likely that he is not a person of colour that's experienced a lot of prejudice based on his skin colour.

Let us know, OP? Am I wrong?

Cheers,

Ed

capo4th · June 2020

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives.

Some of the violence by these groups in the U.K. in the last few weeks is shocking.

Why has it become acceptable for these groups to carry knives?

WiresDreamDisasters · June 2020

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives.
Some of the violence by these groups in the U.K. in the last few weeks is shocking.

Why has it become acceptable for these groups to carry knives?

It's not acceptable, no-one ever said it was.

WiresDreamDisasters · June 2020

So one video I'm not gonna post - David Dorn. Retired police captain. Shot and killed by looters.

paulnb57 · June 2020

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

TTony · June 2020

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

Totally.

The #metoo campaign (glad that's all over now) annoyed me too because it seemed to claim that sexual harassment was only ever M on F.

This ...

WiresDreamDisasters said:

... seems like a completely sensible set of expectations, not something that should be initiated and driven by a single racial group.

Emp_Fab · June 2020

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives.

Maybe if these groups had the exact same opportunities and acceptance as their white-skinned brothers, they wouldn't end up feeling alienated, resentful and turning to crime. These guys want the same things the white boys have but if you've grown up in a society where you are insidiously discriminated against, in all manner of ways that most white folk are oblivious to, then that's going to have a seriously detrimental effect on their outlook and ambitions and where they see opportunity - none more so than in their formative years.

To see them as just more likely to commit crime because they are darker skinned, and "that's just what they're like" is ignorant racism at it's worst. People are people and will respond and react to their environment, physical and societal, regardless of the colour of their skin.

nectar · June 2020

It's true that 'all lives matter', but it's specifically black and ethnic minority people whose lives are devalued here, specifically black and ethnic minority people who are getting killed or discriminated against. That's what this movement is about.

Also, let's not pretend that discrimination is not happening here too. Maybe fewer people are being killed by the police than in the US, but it's still happening here. Maybe we have a stronger social safety net, but whole groups of people are being discriminated against in most areas of their lives. Try applying for a job with a traditionally English name, then with a traditionally African name or traditionally Arabic name.

Then there's the whole can of worms that is Northern Ireland, a colony where in recent decades we've basically institutionally discriminated against Catholic/Nationalist people, and where our government has been complicit in the violence against them.

Let's not pretend that we're better than the US - it's just happening in different ways.

UnclePsychosis · June 2020

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

https://m.imgur.com/a/wOryvn1.jpg

TTony · June 2020

Emp_Fab said:

These guys want the same things the white boys have

That's a depressingly lazy generalisation.

Yup, all the white boys want the same things, and the black kids all want those same things too. Individual value systems, upbringings, ambitions, cultural backgrounds, familial influences, beliefs, relationships ... all count for nothing. If you're white, then this is the package of things that you want. And if you're black, you want that same package.

Once you get past the basic needs of food, warmth and shelter, I'd say that's complete bollocks.