who do you think are the musical geniuses?

PhilW1 · June 2020

Tony Iommi

CHRISB50 · June 2020

DJ Shadow
Aphex Twin

Blueingreen · June 2020

For me:

Miles Davis

Lennon/McCartney

Igor Stravinsky

Claude Debussy

Frank Sinatra

earwighoney · June 2020

CHRISB50 said:

DJ Shadow
Aphex Twin

DJ Shadow - I've never seen an artist slide in quality as much as him. The gap between the Private Press and the Outsider is incredible. His first few albums/EP's were out of this world (I include the first Unkle one as well)

I'm a huge AFX fan, I can understand how many aren't but I think he's own league. Even when he's not really at his best eg Analord he's still really ahead of everyone else, IMO the importance of Analord can't be understated - it kind of brought back a huge amount of interest in analogue synths at a time of Reason, Ableton and VST's (nothing wrong with them in the slightest bit though)

CHRISB50 · June 2020

earwighoney said:

CHRISB50 said:

DJ Shadow
Aphex Twin

DJ Shadow for the first few albums.

I've never seen an artist slide in quality as much as him. The gap between the Private Press and the Outsider is incredible. His first few albums/EP's were out of this world (I include the first Unkle one as well)

Yep. I have to agree to an extent. Although Mountain Will Fall was a recent return to form.

Psyence Fiction gets forgotten about a bit as I guess it was under the UNKLE name, but it’s right up there, as you said.

earwighoney · June 2020

octatonic said:

In the last 100 years or so:

Zappa
Coltrane
Miles
Cage
Stravinsky
Schoenberg
Glass
Boulez
Stockhausen
Gershwin.

No Steve Reich in that list?

Springywheel · June 2020

Actual geniuses, in terms of natural inherent musicianship, or technical ability within the studio...

Brian Eno (amazing at making so much from so little. gets the best out of everyone he works with. studio wizard)
Trent Reznor (Great producer)
Jimmy Page pre-77 (The archetypal rock musician)
Miles Davis (ok he had some amazing musicians accompanying him but he was still a monster trumpet/horn player with a great ear)
Hendrix (totally natural guitar player - not all flash as is portrayed but a great songwriter as well)

quarky · June 2020

What about:

Mutt Lange
Jim Morrison
John WIlliams

Two of them based on obvious success and talent. OK, all three actually.

Bellycaster · June 2020

I'll add the Gibb Brothers to the list

octatonic · June 2020

earwighoney said:

octatonic said:

In the last 100 years or so:

Zappa
Coltrane
Miles
Cage
Stravinsky
Schoenberg
Glass
Boulez
Stockhausen
Gershwin.

No Steve Reich in that list?

He didn't immediately come to mind but yes him too.

fandango · June 2020

Dodge said:

stimpsonslostson said:

Taking the definition of Genius literally:

Bruce Dickinson
Singer of Iron Maiden
Professional airline pilot
Highly ranked fencer
His reported IQ is apparently 167.

Greg Graffin of Bad Religion is a Professor at UC Davis. I've read lots of his scientific publications & never drew the connection until I read his autobiography!

Dexter from the Offspring achieved a PhD in Molecular Biology for research on HIV and is also an airline pilot.

Brian May & Brian Cox are other obvious examples.

As an ex-airline transport pilot licence holder, I am proof that being an airline pilot doesn't require genius!

But when one rolls a number of things together, there's something that stands out. But maybe that's confusing genius with talent? Having read Bruce Dickinson's autobiography, I would suggest his life's success is a mixture of talent and opportunity, and getting stuck in to non-music based adventures & pursuits. Does that make him a genius? But if one strips away the fencing and the piloting, "musically" he's just a lucky guy who sang & wrote songs for a famous rock band. Plus some producer credits along the way. Lot's of those kind of people around. E.g. Robert Plant, Bob Dylan, Neil Young. Would I call Bruce a "musical" genius? No, but he's definitely something.

My immediate thought for a musical genius would be Frank Zappa - as did a few others. He wrote, he composed, he played some corking guitar, he sang (sort of). And he constantly reinvented his band to perform some of the greatest rock/jazz music ever. Eclectic, and left-field, definitely. Conformist? Never. That he could merge so many styles and influences takes some beating. And one could credit his "talent scout" credentials for unearthing Steve Vai and allowing him to develop and shine and become the virtuoso many appreciate today. That all takes a certain amount of genius, surely?

Just being able to sing isn't genius (Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin). Just being able to compose isn't genius (Haydn, Elgar). Likewise being proficient at a particular instrument isn't genius (James Galway, Nigel Kennedy, Jacqueline du Pré). But you'd all agree that these are some very talented people. But genius? Maybe, maybe not. Any doubt, and I would say not a genius.

Should we have defined what is genius, as distinct from greatness, or talent, or skill?

stimpsonslostson · June 2020

Rick Rubin

Snap · June 2020

CHRISB50 said:

earwighoney said:

CHRISB50 said:

DJ Shadow
Aphex Twin

DJ Shadow for the first few albums.

I've never seen an artist slide in quality as much as him. The gap between the Private Press and the Outsider is incredible. His first few albums/EP's were out of this world (I include the first Unkle one as well)

Yep. I have to agree to an extent. Although Mountain Will Fall was a recent return to form.

Psyence Fiction gets forgotten about a bit as I guess it was under the UNKLE name, but it’s right up there, as you said.

He's never equalled Endtroducing IMO. Our Pathetic Age has it's moments, but its average at best really.
Same could be said for Unkle - the last few albums have been week. War Stories is a solid classic thought. He's got a lot of talent too, James Lavelle.

earwighoney · June 2020

Snap said:

He's never equalled Endtroducing IMO. Our Pathetic Age has it's moments, but its average at best really.
Same could be said for Unkle - the last few albums have been week. War Stories is a solid classic thought. He's got a lot of talent too, James Lavelle.

As a record label boss he did an incredible job, there were a few stone cold legends in the British 'alternative' dance scene of the 90's who did some incredible work with their labels like James Lavelle, Steve Beckett/Rob Mitchell at Warp Records, the Coldcut Guys for Ninjatune to name a few.

JezWynd · June 2020

p90fool said:

I tend to apply the phrase to musicians whose grasp of composition is unmatched, and then I re-listen to Who Knows from Band of Gypsys in a darkened room and hear someone channelling something from somewhere else entirely.

So yeah, that.

I’ve read that Hendrix was unhappy with Band of Gypsies, which goes to show that he wasn’t always the best judge of his own work.

octatonic said:

Bowie would have to be in there too.

His genius lay in bringing people together, acting as a creative spark and in marketing himself. That sounds snarky and it's not meant to be, I revere the man. His influence covers a far broader sphere than just music; he was force for creativity and change in wider society. Genius yes but maybe not a musical one.

slacker · June 2020

Imho musical genius refers to one type of creativity. If you studied Belbin, plants are geniuses and resource investigators are not. So anyone who changed music, or started a genre or playing style imho is a genius.

ian dury fits the criteria, married jazz funk to punk with insanely clever sic lyrics.