Bastard Evil Dog Things!

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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    TTony said:
    tone1 said:

    Nothing useful to contribute then?

    (that image is so far past its best-before date).
    Moss doesn't have a best before date.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26455
    edited June 2020
    robgilmo said:
    tony99 said:
    yeah, call the police with 2 staffies hanging off your ankles

    the way to deal with them is to snap their legs mate, either the two front legs away from their chest, or two hind legs away from the groin, then, only then, when you're safe, you can phone the police

    (some people say you should stick a finger up the dog's hoop but that's not my bag at all)
    That's a pretty disgusting attitude. That is not the best way to deal with them.
    Actually spreading their front legs is the quickest and safest way to put an aggressive dog down if its attacking you. Putting your finger in their bum Im not so sure about.
    That's not what was said, though, is it? "snap their legs mate"

    And, by the way, that's not the best way, because it puts both your hands and your face in range of the dog's teeth. Honestly, it's a pretty daft (and cruel) way to defend yourself.

    The best way is actually to allow the dog to bite something on you that's not actually you - a jacket, shirt, whatever - to distract them. Even better if you can cover their head with it. If you get bitten, don't pull away (difficult) but use your other hand and grab their back legs and lift them off the ground, which has the effect of completely immobilising the dog and keeping the pointy end away from you. From there, you can just wheelbarrow them around until help arrives.

    Other than that, keeping them at a distance is the most sensible option. You have legs, which are longer than the useful range of dogs' teeth. The whole point is to keep as much of yourself away from the dangerous end of the dog.

    And, of course, there are exceptions - all of this is out of the window if there are two dogs, and if you've got a Great Dane after you (highly unlikely, they can't be arsed with anything)...pretty much anything on the dog is longer than anything you've got, so I don't know...climb a tree?

    EDIT: None of this is criticism of the OP, by the way - as far as I can tell, he did everything right in terms of keeping the dogs at a distance and preventing anything worse form happening. Without wishing to diminish what was obviously a scary experience...scratches and wet patches sort of indicate that the dogs weren't trying to cause damage, so it was either a fear thing or they've had absolutely terrible training and have no concept of boundaries, socialisation or bite inhibition.
    <space for hire>
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    Wouldn't it be better to put the old lady down, not the dogs?
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7472
    edited June 2020
    I can't add anything that hasn't already been said.

    My partner's colleague was recently attacked by two dogs being walked by a living, breathing bag of twat. The dogs were aggressive - one was off the lead, the other snapped the lead. Edit: the owner then ran away, leaving both his dogs to attack. 

    Result was a course of antibiotics and stitches for the human, and one of her dogs (safely on a lead) has had thousands of pounds of vet care, including two operations, to help. Police still haven't caught the guy, but he's apparently known. 

    These people cannot have dogs. If you have a dog, and you're not in the middle of nowhere with no one else around, *put it on a fucking lead*. Don't be a cunt. 

    I have no time for this stuff. I'm a passionate dog person, but any human that believes they have true control over their animal is kidding themselves. My border collie is sweet, friendly and has never attacked anyone in 12 years. Doesn't mean she won't. 

    Get the police involved. When I worked in the hospital, I worked with someone who became a multiple amputee because his own dog sneezed during a cuddle, with his tooth scratching his arm. Within hours, he was in a+e with a blood infection - turns out the dog had a bacterial infection and the saliva passed it on. The risks are very real! 
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  • TTony said:

    Except to say...the fault isn't "evil dogs", it's "an utterly incompetent owner who's overestimated her ability to influence her dogs' behaviour".
    And I totally agree with this.

    There should be some sort of dog “licence” thing.  You have to be judged competent and worthy of taking “ownership” of a dog before being allowed to do so.

    But then I’d say the same about kids too ...

    All of this. I'd happily take a test to prove I can home a dog. 
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  • JAYJOJAYJO Frets: 1526
    edited June 2020
    Jump off ye bike. Lift your bike above your head with both arms and run at both dogs until they retreat to hide behind the old lady. Then launch bike at old lady. Retrieve bike, straighten slightly buckled front wheel and ride off into the sunset as both dogs look at each other and say..... "What the fck happened there?"
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  • equalsqlequalsql Frets: 6084
    I used to cycle alot on an old railway line that had been converted into a cycle/walking track.  On the country-side stretch of the line I began encountering, on a regular basis, some dogs who'd been let of the lead by their walking owners, and those buggers would run after me and try biting my ankles as I was spinning. The owners didn't give a toss when I complained so in the end I started to carry my bike-pump on the frame instead of in my Camelbak.. When fully extended (in a flick) I found it quite effective.
    Mind you these mutts were not particularly big... I wouldn't have tried this on an Alsation or other similar sized dog.
    (pronounced: equal-sequel)   "I suffered for my art.. now it's your turn"
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  • HeadphonesHeadphones Frets: 981
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

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  • JAYJOJAYJO Frets: 1526
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    if it was me. I would think ahead. i e There's a dog. get some peddling  in and then cruise as i pass . Try not to pedal where the dogs are around etc. 
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    edited June 2020
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    You won't struggle with the police, because if you simply say "a woman that looked like this, with dogs that look like this, did this" then they'll at least log it. And then, if you go back this afternoon, and she's there with the dogs again, you can take video/photos, and if it occurs again then the police have more reports to go on.

    Key thing today is to ensure you have the means to take photo/video quickly if necessary. A gopro style camera would be perfect for this (edit: don't use the waterproof casing as this blocks out loads of audio) - if you think you see the dogs out loose, whether they are nearby or not, start filming. Even if you think you can't directly film, keep filming anyway as you can narrate to the camera with what is happening. If the dogs approach again, loudly and calmly should "please remove your dogs, they are out of control" - if you have this on video, the woman will have no defense to say that she didn't think her dogs were causing a problem. 

    If possible, have a thick piece of clothing with you, such that would be suitable to wrap around your forearm. If a dog is trying to bite, it is better that they bite and clamp onto a heavily padded forearm than anywhere else. Dogs will usually stop continually biting once they have clamped onto something, so this is probably your best bet. Obviously, again get as much of this on film as you possibly can.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26455
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?
    <space for hire>
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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 7076
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?
    yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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  • SnagsSnags Frets: 5326
    The "what do I do if it happens again?" is a toughy.

    I know that with Gibson if it ever happened (it didn't, we didn't let it) the answer was totally counter-intuitive - just stand completely still and refuse to engage with him. That's because his issue was that he was curious about people, but also scared of them, so tended to get his defence in first, as it were. If you just blanked him he'd sniff you for a bit then sit down for a chest rub (which he would only get from specially 'trained' friends, just in case). However your natural instinct is to do anything but just stand there and hope the dog(s) stop. As would mine be, and indeed was when some horrible bastard thing came and had a pop at us both whilst I was walking him.

    In so far as possible I'd go for avoidance - spot dogs off-lead en-route, change route and maintain distance. If they've got a strong chase instinct, a shit owner, and you get within a threshold distance (will vary for the dog) the sods will be after you just because of the movement.

    Failling that, trying to be as calm and non-flappy as possible, and going for @digitalscream 's wheelbarrow technique might work. As might an authorative, deep-voiced, loud "Sit!", "Down!" or "Off!" - but chances are if they're badly enough managed to have got to you in the first place they may not be great on other obedience. The front legs thing is very high risk, a) because you're still at the pointy end, and b) because the dog will hate it and get more aggressive, because if you grab both front legs and pull apart you can kill them (if you're strong enough).

    As a general aside, it's also always a good idea not to stroke/pat dogs on the head. Most of them tolerate it because they're conditioned to, but in the general case they don't actually like it, and if you have one that's a bit borderline, it'll treat it as an act of aggression/threat and respond in kind. Chest rubs for the win (with friendly dogs, not rabid arseholes).
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26455
    Snags said:

    As a general aside, it's also always a good idea not to stroke/pat dogs on the head. Most of them tolerate it because they're conditioned to, but in the general case they don't actually like it, and if you have one that's a bit borderline, it'll treat it as an act of aggression/threat and respond in kind. Chest rubs for the win (with friendly dogs, not rabid arseholes).
    This is something that a lot of people don't realise. Reaching over a dog's head makes them really uncomfortable - if your hand is approaching from the front, reach slowly for the side of their head, because it gives them a choice without adopting a defensive posture; if they're not interested, they can just move their head away. If they are, they can move towards.
    tony99 said:
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?
    yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing
    Actually, this is based on a bit of science and a bit of experience. A couple of our dogs have reacted defensively (which was quite out of character for them) whenever approached by anybody wearing high-vis jackets. A bit of research indicates that canine vision extends at least as far as the UV part of the spectrum (hence knowing exactly where other dogs have peed, even from a distance or in conditions where accurate positioning via smell wouldn't be possible).

    Extrapolating a bit...what if that part of the spectrum looks like it does to us - but stronger than the "glow" we see from the reflective parts of high-vis jackets? Those people might practically look like they're on fire, which - to a dog - would be pretty bloody scary.
    <space for hire>
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  • KeikoKeiko Frets: 962

    tony99 said:
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?
    yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing
    Actually, this is based on a bit of science and a bit of experience. A couple of our dogs have reacted defensively (which was quite out of character for them) whenever approached by anybody wearing high-vis jackets. A bit of research indicates that canine vision extends at least as far as the UV part of the spectrum (hence knowing exactly where other dogs have peed, even from a distance or in conditions where accurate positioning via smell wouldn't be possible).

    Extrapolating a bit...what if that part of the spectrum looks like it does to us - but stronger than the "glow" we see from the reflective parts of high-vis jackets? Those people might practically look like they're on fire, which - to a dog - would be pretty bloody scary.

    It's true, and exactly why I have a black bike, and all my bike clothing is black or at least non-luminous. The luminous clothing winds dogs up in my experience.
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  • HeadphonesHeadphones Frets: 981
    This is taking a turn - the victim of a dog attack is now being questioned for the clothes you're guessing they wore?

    Should I go out with a big sticker saying (presumably in dog speak) "please don't bite me"?

    Frankly, I feel quite offended.


    To be clear - brown walking shoes, khaki shorts, black helmet, grey tee shirt - with "fretboard..." on it, you might recall...

    Will refrain from mentioning underwear.

    Nothing reflective whatsoever, though that might not be appropriate for the roads - might that trigger bus drivers (can't find sarcasm emoji)?

    So, even if PPE might trigger a dog, not the case here.


    Of course, a bike must have a reflector fitted to it...
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    The HiViz questioner made it perfectly clear he was NOT victim blaming ;)
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • tony99 said:
    This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

    What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

    I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

    Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.


    However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

    This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?
    yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing
    hahahaahahaha! Well that got me. Cheers!

    Bye!

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    This is taking a turn - the victim of a dog attack is now being questioned for the clothes you're guessing they wore?

    Should I go out with a big sticker saying (presumably in dog speak) "please don't bite me"?

    Frankly, I feel quite offended.


    To be clear - brown walking shoes, khaki shorts, black helmet, grey tee shirt - with "fretboard..." on it, you might recall...

    Will refrain from mentioning underwear.

    Nothing reflective whatsoever, though that might not be appropriate for the roads - might that trigger bus drivers (can't find sarcasm emoji)?

    So, even if PPE might trigger a dog, not the case here.


    Of course, a bike must have a reflector fitted to it...
    Although you might rethink that decision to wear sausage scented cologne. 

    It is odd what dogs get freaked out about. Our old dog Bilbo was very placid but went completely crazy once when he saw a man walking in the disused canal. Being in amongst the bulrushes and the rats was an odd thing to do but I still had to control my dog, I still had to apologise. My dog, my responsibility - even if the man was behaving oddly.     
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • HeadphonesHeadphones Frets: 981
    Jalapeno said:
    The HiViz questioner made it perfectly clear he was NOT victim blaming ;)

    pretty much what he did though!

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